00:00 Patrick Motsch: Yes, in in the moment. I'm really often travelling to Geneva and Dublin, but normally I can also take train. Normally it's also good to work. Good train connections. This is the advantage.

00:11 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah.

00:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Well then, then Germany is not. Not quite compatible with that if if your work is in the cloud. It's.

00:24 Patrick Motsch: Because very nice state.

00:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Impossible mobile coverage with.

00:31 Patrick Motsch: Each to each tarnall, huh?

00:32 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): True, true. Every time you lose connection, you can't.

00:35 Patrick Motsch: Yes, this is very bad.

00:36 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

00:38 Patrick Motsch: But you know, I also. I also don't relay any more on these Internets and Vlans. I have my own router here. Small small box and I just take my my wheel and I don't like.

00:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Hey, can I sit here with you? Here's our meeting. Yes, of course.

00:54 Patrick Motsch: She's in physics. Cool.

00:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Which chair would you like? It's OK. Hey, nice to see you. Hey, you are very early on WhatsApp. Yeah, because I woke up at 3:55 to catch my bus. Oh, dear.

01:07 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): 355.

01:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: 355 but you know, after having a kid that doesn't slip, it's not so bad.

01:13 Patrick Motsch: OK.

01:15 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Habits. You have an offset, so you can relax the afternoon, right?

01:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Exactly. That's very easy workshop. We will only do meditation. We will do meditation. Sleep meditation. Now you are. You are actually testing my my setup because normally I have my speaker notes here and then I I read the question from my screen but now actually you are here. So I'm not going to do that.

01:37 Patrick Motsch: She can look behind the scene. This is good, but you know, for the meeting taker will be interesting. Whether he sees that is two different persons now.

01:44 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah, sorry.

01:47 Patrick Motsch: For the meeting taker, it's interesting whether he recognizes that it's two different people on the same side.

01:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah. You want me to have another room? Uh, no, no, of course not.

01:59 Patrick Motsch: What's the weather?

02:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, no. It's always weird with hybrid Linux, right? I mean, for me this works given our relationship. If if it would be like first or second time, I'd be like maybe yeah, let's do a separate room. But for now, for me it's OK. Is it OK for pizza and Patrick for you?

02:19 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah. For me, it's fine, of course.

02:19 Patrick Motsch: For sure.

02:20 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK. So OK, I I will figure out how to run this with Peter.

02:25 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): I will start so, so welcome funny. As the third one in the row of interviews that we're having as part of the the DSH technology vision that we want to Co create with, amongst others, you. So you will not be surprised because, you know DSH quite well. But but if I would summarise it, I see great people, great things happening and also some challenges. And opportunities. So things like. Things that we see coming towards us, like AI, how do we want to deal with it? Acceleration of automation how do we? How do we see that working? What is our view on developments like plug in charge or other things? What should we build? What should we buy? Same questions for hardware, right? So how to review supplier management and how many do we actually want and what is important there? So basically a real vision that should also help. The relationship MCOD is H because of course MCO will come with business demands and process wishes. And it's super important that DSH is only leaning back and say, OK, well, we will build. We will just do what you say, but also come up with an own with no vision and in my, in my, in my belief, they should strengthen the relation and should make it should have an impact on an even better outcome.

03:52 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I agree.

03:53 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): So so this, this technology efficient initiative is a Co creation. So it's a collaborative effort to design and to accelerate the long term Technology Strategy. H3 Company and you know already, Patrick. Maybe not, but you will meet him soon. We'll support us on this journey because it's quite it's quite some questions, right? So how do we deal with that? And we've started to to not drown ourselves into details from the start, but start basically from the top. So we will. We will have interviews with you, with SNO directors, but also with it. So yeah, and procurement to be us and from there we will start and based on all these sessions, we will design the next phase. But there's already a kick off planned with a small group and and from there we will slowly also involve experts. We can tell you a little bit at the end. So as a start, I think we hand over to yaoon for an intro of. Yeah, Yuun and Patrick.

04:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep. Yeah. My name is yarun. I figured out a way how to how to read questions. That third screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A third screen indeed. Maybe just to add one thing, so and we also will speak to Fabien in in the same stakeholder interview. And indeed we have a kick off with with Fabio and Peter. To be us and yet so. And Patrick and me to say that. Mid-september and then after that Peter will share a bit later. So this is part of that indeed. Well, you know, I've been transitioning into this H3 concept and we are building it currently. Since the beginning of this year on that journey, we met Patrick and his colleagues. As a as a with super expertise. And and also lots of relevant experience when it comes to real data setup, tech architecture, even building data centers, building teams that run data centers, et cetera. So next to that, he's also just a very warm and a nice guy. I think. Patrick. Yeah. I think with a good sense of humor. And so we we. Yeah, we invited him into this context because he brings lots of value. Patrick, over to you to sorry to already give a bit more information, but you you can describe yourself.

06:31 Patrick Motsch: So I have to give less. This is good. You already said much of this. I'm born in Geneva originally. I come from the French part of Switzerland. I live now near Zurich and I have to learn the other culture and language in our country and I was about 26 years. I was in infrastructure and digitalisation. I started with infrastructure with civil engineering. It's what I what I learned first. Have a little bit an impression of this world. And then I can combine it by designing and implementing data centres at opportunity. That the hyperscalers came to Switzerland and the Dutch company wanted me to raise Switzerland because Netherlands, as usual, was 10 years upfront. Switzerland was nowhere then I had to change the support in the DUT. Ch This was a very interesting time for me, going away from technology more to people and organizations, and from there I come now to this decade I would say AI integration, because I think AI is over. Now we are in the integration part. This is the heavy part. Is it more critical and what I like in this combination is I go away more and more from direct infrastructure and direct, I would say digital things and more to people and teams and organization because there is where's the game played now? This is also my role here. I understood that to support also you and your team and the environment and also to have a view on the environment how to integrate it. And to bring in what I learned in my life.

07:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Cool. Good to meet you. And three wonderful kids. Wonderful wife.

08:02 Patrick Motsch: Means I forgot this time.

08:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK. But we know that from the last introductions, yeah.

08:10 Patrick Motsch: I have a wonderful wife and three kids, and then I was asked so your kids are not wonderful.

08:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah. So, so thanks, Patrick. So that's us and. It's being recorded as you see. It's GDPR compliance. EU server run note taker. Within the confidence of of the four of us, of course you can also get the link to that because too long too, too long. Didn't view view. Yeah, OK. Yeah, it's interesting. Patrick has read AI anyway, so, but we turn this one. It's a confidential setup, obviously, and the ether, but it can extract the insights to integrate it to the kickoff. Over to you, maybe as Joseph brief interview. To meet you as well. And I'm I'm always impressed of people that have many kids and three kids is like, yeah, I think it's quite impressive knowing the work it takes. I'm the mother of two. I just left them this morning together with my husband as well in Stockholm, so he has a full week with the kids himself. We yeah, we live just outside of Stockholm. In a. Interesting new new thing for us both. Work wise, I've been at now for eight years celebrating today. Oh wow. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, I'm not sure if you should congratulate me or not, but when I started I said maximum two years and now I'm here at 8 years later. But I I really enjoy it. It has been like a family all along and has all the possibilities in life so done many different things within the company as well. Currently I'm part of the management team of the mobility and I'm heading in International Department called Marketing and commercial Operations. We do a little bit of everything. I would say it's quite hard to explain what we're doing, but we are sort of like the international one, one part of the international backbone of the organization where we work on process management. We develop our propositions of what we sell offer to the market. Also market this. So have a marketing department and the back office operations, mainly when it comes to building and processes that do not have direct customer impact. Yeah, I I have a lot of fun with my, with my management team, really happy to. Yeah, to do this work with them. Yeah. And as I said. I'm the lucky 1 to be with your management team and later today and tomorrow morning, so looking forward. To that as well. Yeah. So thanks. And now we have a few questions, but it's it's also kind of a a Co creation. So so feel free to to Co create with us. I will ask a few questions and start to start off with and hand over to Patrick and I will take notes for which I will then be here on my laptop. Hopefully not distracting you. And then Peter again like last time, please chime in as well. Cool. So given that marketing, commercial operations and business services and hardware are kind of the the central tendon as we're of this new operating model, we'd love to also to start off with a collaboration between the two and your view on it. Just to start off with how satisfied are you currently with with services and products delivered by DSH. With with the services themselves, or with the collaboration. With people, yeah. Well, the next question will be where can, where, where and how do you feel we can elevate the collaboration? So I guess we're interested in both. Yeah, I think it's always. I mean with services and products you also need to put it into context of. What are sort of the means to achieve this? And I think when I'm looking at this itch, and especially like the digital side, which I think usually get the most criticism in that sense. Actually operating quite a low budget compared to like market standard. So I think from that perspective, I'm I think it's it's quite good. But I'm also biased because I was part of that too in the past. Yeah, so funny. Let digital team. Yeah, not in its current shape. So it was shared differently then. So for example, XLRM was not a partner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I think we have been in immobility quite like we have been seen as front runners when it comes to digitalization, because this was the big thing like 10 years ago, right? Digitalization and we're running on a very digital business. But now I think we're not there anymore. So we have not. We're not like frontrunners when it comes to the innovation side and things have become very complicated because we have a lot of legacy to to carry. So quite now I find ourselves. That we have become quite slow and not therefore also not keeping up with. Market. Yeah, with with competition. So where we are now, it's quite easily for a competitor to like start from zero and get here. OK. Yeah, but we carry a lot of legacies. So it's we are quite slow to move now. Yeah. And we say we, who is the we like digital part. Yeah, digital part. Ware I I I cannot say so much. OK. Yep, OK. Where? Where do you feel the your collaboration with DSH can be elevated to the next level? I think. Peter, we have discussed this before, so I hope there is not so many news, but I think ownership and accountability from this side. So I think we started off where we had this idea that this itch was more of a supplier into the organization in the new capacity of this of the work really work. But I think to be a supplier, it's not to just learn back and like, OK, you tell me what to do. Like you said, it's also about like. Taking ownership and being accountable and like proposing new things as you would be if you were a supplier. So supplier is not something that is like you're just. Like, yeah, subject a subject as a player also needs to be like an active active part of the organization. And I think and there's it's much, it's an opportunity and we discuss it as a lot as. Like Friday at 5 and put it that I said that. For example, we have one like innovation that we are wanting to launch now and then like one day before it was supposed to be developed. It says like it's not developed at all. So I think these types of things, then it doesn't feel like there is like an accountability and an ownership, but more as a passive. Yeah. And I think that goes. Uh. So I agree. Like all people are really, really good. But like doing it together and making this like This Is Us like putting putting on the map in that sense. Thanks. All right. Thanks. Yeah, going to the tech vision and the framework that we have in mind. I mean, as Peter shared this, this, we aim to deliver Co create and deliver and and and implement technology for the BU. How would you define that? As a concept. And we fully respect that we haven't sent these questions up front, which actually next next time we will do, but you're still. A thick vision. How I would define it. So what I would want to have like out of a technician. Is, I think. What are like the emerging technologies and how can we benefit from them? OK, so I have a background in or in and then it was a lot like cool technologies but not so like business anchored and I think that is where it gets interesting. And then understand how can you translate this technologies into business opportunities and what do we do? So how do we activate that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. OK.

17:28 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Really good. Really good. Comments are funny.

17:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep. Thanks. And we actually we're we're working on this. Let me see where this is. Where's my PowerPoints? There it is. OK. There's my second screen, sorry. See, this is what happens then when you. Cannot hide. Where's my PowerPoint? There. Almost. Sorry, jen's. There. No. There, there. Yeah, so sharing this.

18:25 Patrick Motsch: Can I take over to share?

18:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I've got it. Thanks. Yeah. So. This is what we are now envisioning as a kind of a recall steering wheel in a way leadership at the helm. If you are to drive it. Of course, there is an important part strategy, culture and operating model which I think very much goes also into your points. Great. You have this technology, but how do you actually translate them into concrete offerings and through which channels do you go to market? How do you make them real through engagement and operations and and and the organizational aspects and all of that of course supported by, yeah, a. Compatible data and AI landscape. Very high level, Yep. But when we think about tech vision, these aspects come to mind. For us. Is there anything like obvious missing for you, or which is saying OK this this cannot land in this logic? I think one question that I had going into this meeting was because. We were. We were talking about tech vision, but we can all I mean. Maybe that was like an assumption for me that is not true, but I was also thinking like the visions should to a large extent hold how we can benefit from Li full. So yeah, yeah. And then I think Li, it's so much more than like our products. Yes, yes, our products. I think that's that's a 20% of it or something like this, but it's still much more. It's also how we draw insights and processes. And yeah, like all of this. So I think exactly. So I was just thinking. From that perspective, like how does all of that fit into yeah, to this circle. But I'm I'm sure. Well, I mean our at least on speak for Patrick, we don't have a telepathic connection yet, Patrick, but I'm sure that will grow within the next few weeks, but. Maybe I'll start and then Patrick you you you chime in. I would say that this everywhere. That's one of the reasons why data Nii is kind of the forms the. This is on the outer ring because it is all in this bath of data and AI. And when? When you think kind of freely. It is very interesting what kind of organization comes out to fully unlock the potential of what we're about to see, right? And I think. That is definitely. How to formulate it? For me that is not outside. The scope OK. It's a bit. Also, it's not not per SE within. I mean it depends for me, but Peter Patrick let me know. How we fare now, what's needed also with the with the kickoff and and and then how we define phase one. Because if we go too far, too fast, yeah, then we. We get disconnected also from what's, yeah, needed. So I think this is my like the. Yeah, it makes sense so. When I look at this picture. What comes into my mind are like two things. So one is exactly what you said. So not making it like, of course it's a vision. So it will be very big in one way, but also to make it like tangible. So what does it mean? I think sometimes, just like, oh, nice slides or like the copilot trainings like. So nice. Everything would be perfect, but then it's like it doesn't work out, yeah. And so this was one and the other one was like what you described. Now it's more about how can these technologies. Unlock new. Ways of working or organizing or engaging or go to market. So it's more like that. I would like to say this errors like pointing inwards just OK very visually. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So instead of arrows going outwards, you said data and I arrows going inwards. Yeah. So maybe. Yeah, interesting.

22:54 Patrick Motsch: Funny, raising an important point in my brain just looking at the picture and what you said we have on the top on the bottom right, we have AI combined with data. I know where it come from because without data it's not fun to use AI, but what you just said triggers me. AI is the area. It's triggering everything. It's just disruptive. It's not only data and AI.

23:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Hmm.

23:19 Patrick Motsch: AI is also to structure to strategy, to culture, to operations.

23:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Return.

23:24 Patrick Motsch: It's everywhere, but when I look at this picture and what you said, I fully agree and I see not not not to make it too broad. Perhaps we should think about Sharon. Is it really on the bottom right? Because we say the first step is that we have data enabled AI to work with this. Or perhaps really to rethink how to position this AI thing being disruptive. This comes to my to my brain. As you just mentioned, this funny.

23:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mm-hmm. Mm.

23:54 Patrick Motsch: Good point.

23:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I think. The the reason why we didn't make it more prominent is because it it's attracting so much attention now that and and this is a tech vision, it's broader than AI. And so to make it more prominent maybe. Sets up the trap of thinking that actually it's it's it's all about AI which which it's not. It's also about hardware and about well, but anyway, very good conversation.

24:26 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah. Maybe one more comment. Funny on for instance. So it is neat broader than AI. So it it should also give DSHS an identity. There's also the aim of the program and I think you just mentioned a very important point at the beginning, for instance around, hey, if we would act as a supplier, we can also be more active, right?

24:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK.

24:45 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): We can be proactive. We should know about the emerging technologies and also what we we believe we need to do with it. What role we want to play in it? I think it's interesting if you trigger the discussions on the business plan today with DSH. Some of the product owners just lean back and say we're waiting for MCO. It's not up to me to say something. Yeah, that's totally wrong. So if we don't change that, we will never, we can never be the proactive, the proactive partner.

25:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. And of course I also said my role in there because it's also like what do we give? And maybe we needed to make like a first, like a big switch in One Direction to then fine tune back into something more reasonable, which is also, I mean we we live and learn, but we also need to act based on this learnings. Yeah, OK, cool.

25:32 Patrick Motsch: What?

25:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Think so? Very fruitful conversation. Thanks. And yeah, we're iterating this model, but very good addition. Very insightful for me at least, and I think also for the chance great. We also want to be ready on time, so I'm going to, given our lunch workshop. On the back of this and also in general going to next question. Yeah. What initiatives and? Trends and things are relevant for us to know. From within MCO in this context. Yeah, I think. I think Billy might. So from an operational point of view, we I think we did a nice work last week on like the notes that are OK from like a process point of view. So I think there's a is there is a documented. Yeah. OK, cool. OK, great. So Peter, you could share that with us. That would be good. Thanks. Cool. But I think when it comes to Li, I think it's also like. How can we solve problems that our customers have or that we have ourselves is here and then it comes down to that. This is the data that we have. So many of like the of course customer interactions that we have, but also like when stations are not working. But then I think like the main problem that we have now it's about that we don't have usage on our stations that is sufficiently high and I think we. Discussed it before you and I on like how can we get more insights and act on the insights and when we were at that point in time like? We don't even have the data structured. Yeah, but now where work during the summer, so we actually have a nice set of data. Oh, cool. And we also have track like both actions, did we do on both stations and so on, OK. And I would love to use that insight. Yeah, to to then first get. Insights from the data that we can act upon. But then yeah, that that also acts itself with pricing recommendation. And so yeah, yeah, yeah. So more like agentic setup for. For. What's it called? Forgetting the verb now for analysing and synthesizing these these data inputs and then formulating ways to or to improve the situation? So this is about boost usage, right? That we're talking about, so competitive. Yeah, it's so competitive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what? What do you mean with competitive? Well, we now is that. The risk of. The OR like the the the ratio charging station per vehicle. Is increasing, so less vehicles are being sold and more stations are being deployed, right? Yeah. And I think everyone is also in the new like economics. So it's it's different from 5 or 10 years ago when everything was like booming and possible and no cost of capital. And all of this. So it's also a new financial area in that sense. OK. And what we still then is that? Many flitters are doing. A large range of activities that we are doing ourselves as well to increase usage on their, on their stitches because this this is the one way to get back your investment. So like really dumping prices, OK, and having aggressive companies and also lobbying aggressively for like no regulation? Like Tesla. Like no regulation. So we can like kill all our customers to us and nowhere else and right. Right. Yeah. So the heat is on. OK. Thanks. Maybe let me see. Yeah, last question and then pass it over to Patrick. How strongly is digital transformation anchored in the MCO strategy and what's your vision on for MCO's role in the BU's digital future? Is it that we can play a role in in getting like the here and now and the close future business and market trends and we can operationalize the strategies? I think this is one of the roles that we can take in the organization that we can like operationalize. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks. All right, passing it on to Patrick. Peter, is that OK for you? All right. And I'll take note. Thanks.

30:14 Patrick Motsch: Thank you. So where do you see the current and then the future challenges for the BU and for MCO? So I think about things like time to market, regulatory requirements, environment changing these things.

30:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think the usage is the main challenge and then. So. So it's like two things. So the first one is that it's also a bit distilled for our management team. I think that so the first one is that we need to expand value wise and I think that we mainly do in terms of usage. Maybe new value pool so we can target as well, but I think mainly usage like here now short term we need to come. Pretty even in two years. This one. Then Excel is what I call the other one which has more than to do with our internal operations. And there has. Yeah. On that where you think, I think we concluded that we do a lot of like manual tasks today that customers can do themselves. And for example, but also that we see that many of the problems we solve for the customers that we need to help customers to solve. Could be. Yeah. Sold at an earlier stage and not passing it around so much, or not even occur because we had the insights and we acted on them before.

31:50 Patrick Motsch: When you look to the future, what could happen? You're feeling what? What of those factors will be more critical in which not?

32:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think usage is the most critical, so we can lower our cost. Let's say we lower our cost with 50%, but if we still like 80% of our income. Then you know we we don't have a business.

32:17 Patrick Motsch: What is your feeling about regulatory things worldwide about?

32:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yes, I think.

32:26 Patrick Motsch: I don't want to say more.

32:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Number regulation wise and then we're very. Dependent on the regulations around. Subsidies for electric transportation. I think there's one to one connection on that. Also, when it comes to of course like the the what they call like the tolls. With like impacting cost. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Microsoft is of course one is our provider of infrastructure. How how will the cost there go for us and also for our hardware? I think we have a mixed sourcing strategy there like including China.

33:24 Patrick Motsch: Can I just jump down on this point? Do you see some some some locks that you have in the future, just addressed Microsoft that you have like A1 vent structure piece? Are there more options? Are there other vendors or or points that you see there? We have a risk that we are dependent on one.

33:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Of course it's a risk, but I mean, they're always risk. It's more like what? What is the sort of risk you accept? And I think until now. Electric infrastructure has been sort of a nice to have. So it has been also from like a society perspective, it has not been like critical infrastructure. We have not, from a society point of view, said that you need to focus these requirements more from like a customer experience point of view. That that decides it.

34:21 Patrick Motsch: What? Fine, it's enough. We we just touch the top three like this and we don't need all the details. It helps us already enough. I would like to jump to the next question how to use customer data and analytics. You said before that there's much data that could be used to improve targeting personalization to make campaigns. How you use it and what you use.

34:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good question. So we use both our internal sort of. We have a mark, what you call like a researcher. She has access to. Yeah, a lot of data in. So she helps us when we have specific questions. We also use consultancies and that we have, of course. A large amount of data ourselves. Which will also work with capacities such as light, I think often. Agencies that helps us with collecting like data on specific cases.

35:33 Patrick Motsch: What's what's your current degree of process automation? How you would you rate it and which MCO processes would create the most value? If you would digitalise them? If they are not yet digitalised?

35:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Semant. I mean, I think it's all depends on what you compare to. Do you compare to the rest of Oct file?

36:01 Patrick Motsch: I would say thus we do this vision. I would say yes, this will be the benchmark, but you can give 2 answers. It can give compared to the rest of waterfowl and compared to the environment that you face.

36:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think we're like a million. I would say, yeah, two point in general. So I think there are much like worse and much better as well. I think we're somewhere in between. I think the challenge we have is that we have had so many different processes and then we have a new customer that requires something else and then it comes like a manual process there. So I think we have like this core process. Which is some to some extent. OK, but yeah.

36:47 Patrick Motsch: Forgive me one example where you think where you are better and where you think I have room for improvement. Would it work like this?

36:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. So I think when we put this charging stations in and out, we have a very solid process for the the urban concessions. And also in the billing process, I think that is also highly automated.

37:07 Patrick Motsch: OK.

37:07 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Thinking funny, I think. I think our best process is probably the billing and billing sounds then like sending one invoice, but it's mainly like the whole process from all those individual charging sessions that need to be rated invoiced. I think to what's wrong that's quite good.

37:26 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So we have like two. I think we have two million 2 million charging sessions each month. Or something like this. And all of them needs to be filled, and that is fully automated. And then of course, we have like people that are working on quality assurance and some some steps you still need to oversee and and some. But yeah, I think it's all to worry about the funds quite good because this is what we're sort of used to like having a lot of control that we build.

37:53 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

37:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But I think where we're not so good is like also having this all distributed assets. It's not in the in sort of the butterfold having so many distributed assets like the centralized and manage because we like multiple is much better like managing parks or like big facilities. And.

38:19 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Customer interaction is also something where I think we're low. So self-service and the way we interact with customers and if they have a question, I think it's not so automated, right?

38:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I think it's also to a lot to a large extent, it's included in our in the in the PowerPoint that you will share. So I think what we said is like self-service. And then donning process. So where we collect the money this is can be improved. To capture more. And we also have data quality issues. So this goes along with data quality issues. That we have bad data quality in. Yeah, to some extent and therefore cannot capture the money. Then we said that there are few like non standard processes like applying for an for an electricity contract in and out each charging station or cluster charging stations. We need to apply for a contract and then when we place it like low power stations in a high amount. Like very many of these electric electricity contract. So I think we said what was it like 300,000? Yours or something like this. Think Kimber. If if we automate that process. Including grid connection. But I think all of this is in that PowerPoint agreement. There were a few more. I don't have a top of mine.

39:50 Patrick Motsch: You address this point of decentralized asset management. When I understood it right. So what is your impression? Is it necessary to have a centralized asset management or would it be better to have a decentralized to have flexibility?

40:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No. So I don't mean it's like organization otherwise I mean more like we are operating 70,000 charge points and they are like distributed along the whole of Sweden, NL and some regions in Germany. And it's and then it's. It's an art to be able to manage technical assets that can break down lose power. You know we lose connection whatever in this like distributed. Also, because I mean, if you go out there and and maintain it, maybe that will the whole. The whole margin that you have on that decision, but if you don't then you will have a bad customer experience. That will then affect. It will not work. Yeah, the margins are thinning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Largely so. OK, I think to manage distributed assets, it's it's an art that that it's not in the sort of backbone of butterfull.

41:08 Patrick Motsch: What?

41:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And I think all the assets. Have a challenge in this because we are also doing a few years work on building up our like automated processes and interfaces around this topic. I think we're now sort of coming to a place where we are launching. This solution in a first pilot.

41:32 Patrick Motsch: OK.

41:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But it's, yeah, it's it's it's, it's, it's a challenge for us. It also showed in the in. Recent internal audit that we had.

41:43 Patrick Motsch: I got the point. Great. Next question, how do you differentiate our offerings into market and what channels do you use to reach and engage customers throughout their journey SO2 topics? That challenge that we have and how we differentiate.

42:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: The women use like the traditional channels like Mirtha Google. LinkedIn and then of course we have some customers that we can directly interact with as well through. Yeah. The ones that have like a subscription to us or so. Then we also interact through our partners. Sometimes it's very lowly utilized, I would say. And then what was the other question?

42:33 Patrick Motsch: The other question was one was the challenge at the Channel Stadium? Sorry. And the other was the differentiation market. What we make better than others?

42:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Umm. I think we do the placement in our urban concession better than others with higher quality. So we actually do what we should do and we don't over promise in this area.

43:04 Patrick Motsch: To be delivered in time.

43:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, yeah. I think we deliver largely in time on cost, on quality in the, in the tenders on urban.

43:14 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

43:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: To be honest, I think on the other segments we don't do so much better, but we win a lot on that. We have a reliable brand.

43:27 Patrick Motsch: And about partners, you said something. Is there some kind of obstruction partner management or is it just occasionally that there is some partners? How do I have to understand this?

43:39 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: As a partners, So what I meant in partners is like the ones that we close like charges at their locations. So for example, in Sweden we have like Max Hamburgers, which is like I think it's even bigger than McDonald's in Sweden now. And we place charge. We have a partnership with them. So we place charging stations there and then we are now building up like a partnership with. Them so when we place charging stations that we can do like Co marketing. No, like a free hamburger. For every. You can order hamburgers in the car. Oh, OK. That's cool. That's cool. But I mean for, I mean, yeah. And then it's so like dependent on the, the, the, the location partner has to send like brand vision that you have and then of course with netco, it's not like. Perfect match. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think, but I think one thing that we're good are is like in general. No, no, I don't. I don't. I don't want to say it.

44:44 Patrick Motsch: Now it's interesting.

44:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I wanted to sort of like call it, but I think we're. We're not there. So the quality is not a differentiator. I mean, OK and what's our differentiator in the past was that I mean when we started and especially when we when we when in cases where we let other. There are two business models, one where we invest ourselves and 1:00 when we sell. So we are reseller and in the real seller model, I think it's the same like with the urban concessions that we to a large extent actually do what we've said that we should do. So I think we're quite like good from that perspective. So if we have solved something, we make sure to like fulfill that contract.

45:35 Patrick Motsch: It's good.

45:36 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Just from my understanding. Sorry, Patrick. What's Mirta you said Mirta? Mirta, Google, LinkedIn, mirta, mirahta. OK, sorry Mehta. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks.

45:47 Patrick Motsch: As to make the concern meta meta.

45:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thank you. Lost in translation? Yeah.

45:51 Patrick Motsch: Then the last technical topic I would say how do you collect and act on customer feedback? And what the would it be possible for you to give us inputs or insights on this question from my side? Because I don't know that the company and all these organizations yet. What can you say on this?

46:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, until now very scattered. So we have like sit back there and there and there and then everyone is like running around like this is happening, but we are now. I'm seeing this picture now in front of me. People running through the building here. Yeah, I haven't yet met them, but I trust it's a bit like this in my it's what I experienced. So like, I mean just ad hoc. Yeah. And so we have now one person that is. Like has as an assignment in in one of our in one of our teams. Like structure full of this.

46:40 Patrick Motsch: OK.

46:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So we have, like all feedback, at least collected in one place.

46:44 Patrick Motsch: Oh, very good. So this your up to make like a project now to organise this.

46:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep.

46:50 Patrick Motsch: Good. And the strategies for digital channels? What kind of digital channels you use? Before you said something, use this partner network. Whatever. But digital channels, what do you use? Do you spell spokos about Meta and others? This is a channel, but what is it? How you use it?

47:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So on LinkedIn, we're running campaigns. So in in different steps like a funnel and then at the end we do like direct messages for the ones that converge. On Google we do Google Maps, so we list all of our stations and we also do targeted.

47:30 Patrick Motsch: So see how you do you do this, you do this.

47:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, search, search engine optimization. But we also have pill campaigns in selected areas, so.

47:41 Patrick Motsch: OK. So LinkedIn and Google and and what else?

47:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So Geo targeted campaigns we have on Google and then we also said like based on who clicked there, did they actually then visit the charging station and saw on which has yeah we were seeing the 1st results. So this new from this year and we're seeing the 1st results.

47:58 Patrick Motsch: Whoops, cool.

48:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I'm not sure I need to come back there.

48:05 Patrick Motsch: OK. And Microsoft? Do you stare with? Nothing.

48:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, I don't think so. So this is what we use and then the alication partners and our own website.

48:23 Patrick Motsch: The website, yeah.

48:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: At this point in time, we're not using our app. For this, due to technical reasons. The fact the in charge app. Yeah, which is a bummer. And then we also of course like direct communication in like newsletters and but the files newsletter and similar.

48:47 Patrick Motsch: This gives me a picture, right? What soap? Two topics, non-technical what is good. Environment and the domain that you work that should not be changed. And what should we change?

49:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: From a picnic or.

49:11 Patrick Motsch: What about we speak now? We have many topics that we were going through. We have narrow issues. What do you say we have to change imperatively and don't touch. It's very good what we do. What would you say if I ask like this about MCU for sure, yeah.

49:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mm-hmm. And. Yeah, I think we need to work more on like insights market and customer insights to adopt our strategy to to drive people for station. So repeating myself. A bit there business to be changed. Also, when it comes to. To. Process improvements. I put it like this. I think we need to increase. And that is to do process improvements.

50:04 Patrick Motsch: Point.

50:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Technical as well. Not charge. I know I think I'm open to. To changing what is needed to be changed to get where we need. I'm not typing, yeah.

50:36 Patrick Motsch: Very good. Everybody should do it like you do.

50:44 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I'm just trying to get something which is also sort of. Important for this this project. I like that we're running an international business, so we approach it from an international point of view. I believe that we in the last year, I would say have also. Served folks a lot on like serving our owner with the quality that they require. And this really? Sometimes a bit boring, but it's also very clear. And then it's just about doing it. I don't know. I'm at the central setup. Or is that also the international bridge? I don't really. I don't think, but I mean just check it. I don't want to put put the central setup. Per southeast. Something to change? No, this one. That's what you mean, OK?

51:59 Patrick Motsch: OK.

52:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, it's OK. Business from an international organization, yeah. And I would say also the in general the energy and the the mood and the passion in people is or. You know better. The older I get. Yeah, yeah. The more I feel that you need to have balance in that energy, OK? So having 300 people with puppy energies, it's not helpful. Yeah, 300 puppies. That's a nightmare.

52:30 Patrick Motsch: This is a good point.

52:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK.

52:34 Patrick Motsch: To manage the energy that it's aligned where we need it, what point?

52:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And aligned I think.

52:41 Patrick Motsch: And your verb was aligned much better. So not only the energy that you put to the charger, but the energy of the people and organization to align. Excellent point.

52:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. And also I think and then this puppy energy of course is like amazing to be around. And everyone says that everything is possible. Everything everyone loves. Puppies loves puppies. Yeah. And then. But then after six months, everyone is frustrated because you didn't go anywhere. Yeah, you were. Just and screaming and barking like. Yeah. And So what? I come to appreciate more and more. Is this a bit more senior? Homeless experience, because now we're we're not in the startup phase. Yeah, sure. We're not in the skill upfront. We're running in a consolidation phase. Yeah, and to to consolidate. There are other. Other qualities I think that are needed. OK, very good.

53:32 Patrick Motsch: Or the rules of the market and all the qualities required. Yeah, very good point. Excellent. We just jumped to the last question. We are already in what was not said. Do we have anything else you want to tell us? We may can add this tech vision. We think about our own. What do we want to give us in addition that we did not ask?

53:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But I think what I said so so. I appreciate. Strategies or Rd. maps or visions that are tangible so you know like I got I once did this training and then they said like based on this insights what would be your first physical step? And I really, I really like that. So this is something that I usually take. So so now I go out from here. What will I do? Yeah. Like what would be my first physical step?

54:25 Patrick Motsch: Excellent.

54:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: To transform, yeah.

54:29 Patrick Motsch: What? So before you go out, I hand over now to you, Peter, that you tell us all of us what to do when we leave the room. Next steps.

54:38 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Very interesting interview things. Funny also, because it's of course a lot from the hip, right? You need to react immediately and. Yeah, very, very impressed. Also, by the answers it's it's it's for me very interesting to to look into all those interviews. Everybody has a bit of a different style, which is, which is so interesting. But I also learned something, so I love it. And yeah, so so we take all those interviews. To also get a clear understanding of the current state, the challenges, and to define the next steps, and in two weeks from now, yeah, it's two weeks we have this. We have the kickoff session with the core team. And we also define the next steps, so we will for sure keep you posted on this journey on this interesting journey to to create this vision. And yeah, thanks for now for the input.

55:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks. Looking forward to the next steps and let me know if.

55:34 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): And I will share the the process overview with with you, you and Patrick.

55:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Wonderful. Thank you. Have any questions?

55:39 Patrick Motsch: Perfect.

55:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Just reach out. I will do that. I'll do it like this. All right.

55:45 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yes. Bye bye bye.