wiki/mandates/vattenfall/100 Context/20250915 Alignment meeting for kickoff.txt

00:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: How the evolution?

00:11 Patrick Motsch: On the other thing that Clinton dest.

00:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah.

00:19 Patrick Motsch: Roys.

00:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That was a really good interview, wasn't it?

00:25 Patrick Motsch: It was fantastic, it. She's brilliant in speed and in connectuality and in, I

00:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

00:31 Patrick Motsch: say, in intelligence. Why? It's so refreshing to have. Wow.

00:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, and she's younger. She's young also. So,

00:40 Patrick Motsch: But also brings it to the ground. That's that's why I also saw. You have to ask

00:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No.

00:45 Patrick Motsch: again to go a little bit more deep. The information she gave so beautiful input. Wow.

00:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Now, and I'm also coaching her one-on-one. So I mean, in an executive coach

00:56 Patrick Motsch: Cool.

01:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: journey with her because what to

01:01 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

01:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: boss.

01:11 Patrick Motsch: But that's

01:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Said it would, it would really benefit her. Actually, it was already. They already asked me to coach her and then she became Became Peter spread a successor. and I think in that is I mean I don't need to go into details but it's basically the performance side. She's covered it. Let's say Yeah. So she really drives. Yeah she really

01:40 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

01:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: delivers, she really drives performance. She can she can also articulate a vision, she can put it on the ground, she can enthus and mobilize people. So Yeah, Super inspiring. And And and I would really love to to have her close. Also in the next phase.

02:04 Patrick Motsch: Definitely, so she's not only up tomorrow, I am.

02:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Outlet.

02:06 Elfried Klarenbeek: Hey, good morning. Good. Hey.

02:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: She's not in the kick of tomorrow because she's a country director. But I I

02:16 Patrick Motsch: I know.

02:17 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: think we should we should Recommend for her to be a very close into the next phase. Yeah.

02:25 Patrick Motsch: For not tomorrow because it's small round. But then in that additional around for sure, because this sentence us, she formulated detail for it is a wonderful

02:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

02:33 Patrick Motsch: sentence touches. Anna Marie formulated. I try to rephrase it but I cannot indeed about the message. The message was, There are two parts. One part is dsh, you are to experts the Techn. To be transformation with digital. You bring it out to the country. The second role, the second part is we have experts in all countries, they play already with this AI things let them communicate and join teams with you that they teach you from the market and front organizations how it works. Oh, that's what's up. Beautiful.

03:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: immobility is not not doing at skill. So anyway for context, but let's check in the ends. Wonderful to see you after a weekend. And maybe how are you? What are you feeling anything distracting? You and intense for this school? Yeah. So I am. Yeah, feeling. Well rested. I met a Tesla garage in, in a lounge. Hopefully not disturbing others too much. It's rather big big lounge. Other than that, no distractions. Yeah, intense various scores to align on tumors kickoff. I think you are concretely. And whatever that takes. That's me. Passing it to Patrick.

05:04 Patrick Motsch: dress. Restless and those are resting weekend was really cool and and it is money, get a very good have 10 meetings today but cool things. Again I I have big respect from the kick off tomorrow because we need to al And and I'm happy and also very interested from this kick off the slides that I have seen that. You prepared, guys, really cool but what I need is the link. From from what I tried is the other side around. And yes, I I cried that we can start. So my side,

05:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, guys, yeah, how I check in? I was an early start this morning. There's a

05:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks.

05:52 Elfried Klarenbeek: you guys. I don't know how you feel but And it might be. So in every project there's somebody that's got to piss the vinegar and that might be me today. But in a constructive way guys. Yeah.

06:27 Patrick Motsch: Oh, nice correlation.

06:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okito.

06:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Very good, thanks. Yeah, it's a bit hard to translate but I guess you did literal translation. Not sure that works. But to be there to be this, to be the shower. A sour one, you know, like, but

06:45 Elfried Klarenbeek: I, Okay. Yeah.

06:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: from from the, from the, from a good from the, I said challenging role, right? I would say.

06:55 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, sure. And I think in in the firm they call it. You haven't an obligation to descend. I think that's the Yeah.

07:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

07:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: Is there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

07:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And not the movie. So I have different. There are different versions of the keynote. How would you like your approaches? Would you? I mean so I would also not like to not just talk but also look at slides, but if it's important to first talk, then let's do that. But then,

07:34 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, let's first talk before. Go to slide. Yeah.

07:36 Patrick Motsch: Yes, yes.

07:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, but let's not let's not only talk then would be my request. Yeah.

07:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay, but let's first set the agenda and then see where we need to end and then

07:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: so,

07:47 Elfried Klarenbeek: we could set that maybe times thoughts. Yeah, that prevents us from keep

07:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good.

07:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: talking.

07:52 Patrick Motsch: first set of results from all these documents

08:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I I so what I try to do is to create complementary, so I think, first I wanted to go through the slides, give some comments before this is not at value. So, I said, I come from the other side, I come from bottom up, I take all the results and with this, I wanted to do two things and this is not the next agenda point. I wanted to sort out what is stable for the future and what is volatile.

08:43 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

08:44 Patrick Motsch: Is I wanted my sense in my five cents in for shaping the agenda of the kick off.

08:49 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

08:49 Patrick Motsch: What what eternals what topics we need to cover. What, I did not look is the storyline because here I have seen your just expert. I have nothing to see for this. So this will be an agenda point that I would like that. We try to do it. From both sides to connect.

09:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah, that's that's wonderful. And in my turn, I've looked

09:09 Patrick Motsch: Just okay.

09:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: very closely at the work that you created Patrick. So I have some questions here and there for that.

09:22 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

09:24 Elfried Klarenbeek: Also, I had a look at the certainties and uncertainties and made a first prototype of what Scenario's could look like and even tested your your

09:33 Patrick Motsch: so, Cool.

09:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: recommendations against those scenarios. Just to get a feel, you know where we are. So I could share some of that and furthermore I would really like to understand what your vision on there. So I've looked at the HTML stuff. How does this fit into the project? I would love to understand your thinking there.

10:01 Patrick Motsch: May have not another one. And if you have time, I would like to show you, this

10:04 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

10:06 Patrick Motsch: real-time editor that we can use functions, but not not to stop because, you

10:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, that's nice. Yeah, yeah.

10:10 Patrick Motsch: know, they're dive down in thousand things, this is more for me, like the sugar at the end, time to look at

10:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

10:18 Patrick Motsch: Because of future sessions, I will do it anyway. I visit on my console, I will put all the data data and then I press Enter and we have a new version of whatever documents we need. I have now all documents in my editor mirrored from, from the Google Drive. So this topic will be a short short demo.

10:32 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. Yeah. Okay, interesting. Yeah.

10:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Spirit.

10:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: So what, where would we start with this dialogue? Is it a good?

10:44 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So just to just who and see if I understood you. So elf with you have written your, it's agenda items on slack, right?

10:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

10:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Patrick you, add top download perspective. Right.

11:02 Patrick Motsch: Correct.

11:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: A topics because I think that addresses the methodology, and we take it from

11:14 Patrick Motsch: Right.

11:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: there that make sense.

11:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay yeah, yeah, okay that's good. Well that I think we need to agree on

11:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

11:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: methodology. And my first question was is what is a validated high level DHS tech, vision and strategic framework.

11:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. So maybe just to serve for contacts how the term comes to into life. Yeah, that's just me in my high level, talk to give us space to define that in

11:54 Patrick Motsch: Make sense because it's recognition. Everybody knows this picture. Now, we want

11:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And of course, we need to then go in with a hypothesis and validated hypothesis with a client because ultimately they need to see say yes or no. yeah, and what I mean by validated is validated with clients, not fairly data is against all the wisdom in the world, but just simply say that against client and and and maybe industry reports and maybe stakeholder interviews

12:41 Elfried Klarenbeek: I have no idea what that is, and that is the deliverable. So that's for me a little bit concerning that we have a deliverable that's undefined

12:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But that's, that's what I mean by by that.

12:47 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. Okay. But can we in this talk agree upon what it is as the deliverable? Yeah I think

12:58 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, that's that's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

13:01 Elfried Klarenbeek: yeah and and then once we have that we can figure out okay there's a scenario part. How does that fit in?

13:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yes. So and where this specific formulation can also came from a validated high-level TSH, techvision as DG framework is also, I mean that's basically also this wheel that we have derived We could say That is our framework, Let's say yeah, and it's validated because of IMD. Methodology? And because we validated that framework in all the interviews. By the way, we do have a updated one now, But that for me would be a validated framework.

13:59 Patrick Motsch: Make sense because it's recognition. Everybody knows this picture. Now, we want

14:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah, and then we keep it simple.

14:03 Patrick Motsch: to introduced to

14:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: just added tech and infrastructure and

14:11 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

14:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: customer and partner ecosystem and I'm seeing those at the same level as data and AI kind of To really elevate them.

14:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah and yeah yeah I get I get there is a longing to add stuff to it you know it

14:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But yeah.

14:31 Elfried Klarenbeek: gives everybody has their own perspective. And what I did yesterday, I ran multiple deep search around. To look at what makes companies successful fail or extraordinary successful. And is there a causality between what kind of factors?

14:53 Patrick Motsch: oh,

14:54 Elfried Klarenbeek: Um, that could be an additional one but and that that would make sense.

15:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, yeah, well, what we need to I mean, we need to have some sort of narrative

15:19 Elfried Klarenbeek: And but for now I would say we have the people in the talent here we we put that in structure and just leave it by this by this but that, you know, but I'm not so keen on putting ecosystems and and so on in it. Just to keep it at five elements, you know, not yeah.

15:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: around all the

15:50 Patrick Motsch: It's been, it brings me.

15:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Suggestions that we didn't integrate, we need to.

15:54 Patrick Motsch: fall. The first is that we just had this is this environment or is this ecosystem of the partners and the customers One environment is TSH is not isolated, they're in in a compound company with structured with county

16:23 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sure.

16:25 Patrick Motsch: organizations. This was one point that has been addressed Defense deferred. The third point is the development of immobility something like this. The environment part from this front is industrial reports. The change of the environment.

16:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: Here. Sure. Yeah. I get that. I get that. Yeah.

16:42 Patrick Motsch: If you like I feel like this is three pillars around. Because deltos will also need to shape the strategy to make the stress test for the strategy. You see a little bit fussy, but this picture more I have this with

16:52 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

16:57 Patrick Motsch: the five elements enter.

16:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh, I I fully understand it but but what, I think these five elements are how to create an adaptive organization.

17:07 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, cool. Yeah.

17:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah. That's I think that is the end game for trying to create an

17:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mmm.

17:11 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

17:12 Elfried Klarenbeek: organization that can metabolize. All these changes that are happening on a continuous basis

17:18 Patrick Motsch: Perfect.

17:20 Elfried Klarenbeek: of course, the the we need to calculate that there is in a larger ecosystem and so on and so on but that's not

17:28 Patrick Motsch: Rounding environment perfectly. I like it. That's why I tell not in the model.

17:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: That's environment. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

17:33 Patrick Motsch: There are around

17:34 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. So, what you

17:36 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But let's let's underline that elfried and then giving it back to you. We the

17:39 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

17:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: end game is an adaptive organization said and and that should be our mantra.

17:42 Elfried Klarenbeek: And adaptive organizations. Yeah. Yeah.

17:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Also tomorrow, the end game is an adaptive organization. Thanks.

17:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: And what what we added? You know, hold on is and and just to, I mean, Let me see here. In the organization.

18:02 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And we are, we're not seeing your screen.

18:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh f***.

18:05 Patrick Motsch: Now we see our SELFIE look good.

18:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh, that's strange.

18:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We're seeing ourselves in an infinity loop.

18:10 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, that's not a good idea. Let me try again.

18:13 Patrick Motsch: but this was art with,

18:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I already looking at myself once that's already more than enough.

18:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: You you already looked at yourself, okay. Yeah.

18:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That's better. Thanks.

18:20 Elfried Klarenbeek: So, by the way, I updated how it looks. Yeah, so that helps. Yeah.

18:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It looks super nice. Yeah.

18:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Structure incentives. So there is something around innovation that's not in this thing and something about governance on AI, you know? And, and data. So whatever we call it it's missing and should be added I feel and for the rest. Yeah. You did from a methodological point. Yeah. What's missing is people here talenting talent and the capabilities of people that's not in this thing.

18:57 Patrick Motsch: so,

18:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: And but I don't feel like, yeah, we can add it, but then we, we would have to redesign the whole thing.

19:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But can we not edit underneath operation or something? What do you think?

19:09 Elfried Klarenbeek: But it's a it's a it's a building block of of the highest order, you know.

19:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

19:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

19:17 Patrick Motsch: I've created.

19:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And what, and what what does the model mean by people and talent?

19:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: Well, you you could also say it's part of culture, you know, the people because

19:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: they define the culture, you know, you could get away with it. But moving forward, you might want to add it. I mean, we're already looking at, we're looking at last Friday at until this basically, Hey you need a data scientist.

19:39 Patrick Motsch: For sure.

19:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: In. Yeah. so he said, he said, You know, you can't basically but, Yeah.

19:45 Patrick Motsch: but, Everything.

19:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Make a dent.

19:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

19:49 Patrick Motsch: a true invention of it. The capability. What about this part?

20:12 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

20:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It was totally.

20:19 Elfried Klarenbeek: So, can you what?

20:21 Patrick Motsch: a culture part the box on the wrong bottom culture, to have four texts of this

20:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sorry. Yeah. Yeah culture. Yeah, that says Yeah. Yeah. And and then that would say people people

20:28 Patrick Motsch: thing at okay, this

20:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: capabilities

20:37 Patrick Motsch: Whatever. But it won't because it said it finally it's a culture thing. And

20:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah.

20:42 Patrick Motsch: culture is not like in the last century. We are a little bit nicely. Each other, we have different people and countries culture is an asset.

20:50 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yep. Okay I'm I'm yeah it's bit let me think about it. Yeah, we could edit. Yeah

20:57 Patrick Motsch: Good.

20:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: but from a logical point of view, it shouldn't be there but that's it. But okay.

21:04 Patrick Motsch: It's good.

21:04 Elfried Klarenbeek: Hey so but but then come coming back to what is the deliverable then? So we have

21:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: but,

21:14 Elfried Klarenbeek: this picture. Yeah and what is then what's the division it ordered you know? What's the deliverable?

21:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: A strategy to attract.

21:25 Elfried Klarenbeek: So this isn't, this is a model. What, what is the deliverable is the

21:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Just yes.

21:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: deliverable? Look like

21:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I would say at least a strategy to attract and retain the required talent. And develop. That's not part of strategy. That's the people that the people part of the

21:45 Elfried Klarenbeek: That's the people part. Yeah, yeah.

21:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: strategy I would say. And and it's not culture. So, Yeah, you could, you could put it under operations but I I quite like the elevating it to the building block in line with the model. And I think it's, Yeah, other than the visual. Challenge. I don't think it's we're on time. I would say

22:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: I would I would propose then to say We do put leadership in the center strategy

22:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: around it and then you have culture and people as the two building blocks Okay.

22:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: underneath that, that might work for me. Yeah.

22:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

22:26 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

22:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

22:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: that you have a ring, a ring outside of leadership and then

22:33 Elfried Klarenbeek: Let me prototype it right now. Yeah.

22:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Okay.

22:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, continue guys.

22:41 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thinking about people processes and well, everything basically. And and with this new building block, I think that gives room to integrate it better when it comes to people. Okay.

23:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Just a short prototype guys to, to make sure that we understand each other. That would mean. That it would look like that. It looks like this more or less you know, to find.

23:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

23:41 Patrick Motsch: Perfect.

23:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay. Hey. And then what how does what is then the end deliverable? So this is the model. This is the framework, the starting point of thinking, how does the end deliverable look like?

23:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: What do you you mean end of the World Phase One or what do you mean?

24:04 Elfried Klarenbeek: so,

24:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Or of the whole thing.

24:06 Elfried Klarenbeek: validated high-level DHS vision that needs to be delivered, according to plan.

24:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Framework. Yeah.

24:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yet tech vision and strategic framework. So the question is, so we have a model but the question is what does the deliverable look like

24:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

24:33 Elfried Klarenbeek: So am I?

24:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

24:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sorry guys, but

24:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

24:37 Patrick Motsch: I make it right. I make a try. This circle here with the shaping. This is the

24:39 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

24:42 Patrick Motsch: framework. This represents the highest level of division. Based on this framework, we have to be after vision statement classical where we want to go. And based on this, I would say we have a strategy consisting of different topics that are important based on this framework. This is the high level. I would shape based on this.

25:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: and

25:14 Patrick Motsch: Exact.

25:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mission statement.

25:17 Patrick Motsch: Vision mission statutory and what it? Imperative, etc.

25:20 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: and then, How to? how to measure or monitor the progress of that Northstar and then The strategies. To feed that elfried is.

25:34 Patrick Motsch: defeated cycle again, the feedback cycle is then once we have this KPIs to measure, They get those cape as we can locate on the circles on there.

25:44 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: How does it sound? Oh, Gsm Elfried.

25:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Chips.

25:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: As a logic. High level logic.

25:50 Patrick Motsch: No.

25:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, but that's that's how you formulate the strategy. Hold on. I have another thought. Yeah. And let me let me allow to share

26:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: oh,

26:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: And over the course of this project we're going to fill in all these elements. Yeah we're it's too early to say anything about. Yeah. So this is sort of the roadmap when these things become clear. But know that we're after these six elements in each of these six elements we're going to define what needs to happen. Is that how does that make? Is that does that make sense?

26:35 Patrick Motsch: For me, this makes good sense. Structured.

26:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. And then what does it take vision is the result of all of those six streams

26:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, if you have if so, according to to what I understand is Patrick's gonna

26:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, okay.

26:55 Elfried Klarenbeek: deliver in each of these components a cause and effect analysis.

27:01 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

27:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: Then that delivers a set of yeah, causes an actions. Yeah. That could be then stress tested against scenarios and that could be, then a sort of a final roadmap for each of these six elements and that could then be division. Or the or the framework or the? Yeah.

27:30 Patrick Motsch: I, I Have one point? Yes, exactly what you said, meaning the stress test, also with the environment factors that might change or are very divergent that we make different scenarios they influence in this causality network certain objects, we

27:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: Exactly. Yeah.

27:47 Patrick Motsch: can't do it, we can do it on this level again. Bottom up what we can also do it top down to stress test, the formulated strategy with the environment directly, This is the two, the two stress tests we can do.

27:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

28:03 Patrick Motsch: Does this give a pigment?

28:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Can you sorry, can you repeat that again? Sorry.

28:05 Patrick Motsch: Yes, the stress test we can do on two levels. One level is bottom up again, we have this course effect diagram, of course, effect logic with boxes and effects. We can apply the, we can apply the difference. Scenarios of the environments for the future can apply directly to the boxes. Meaning We formulate what meat, What does it mean? If people don't buy electron mobile cars anymore, something like this, What does it mean? Then certain boxes will change in the costality? This

28:32 Elfried Klarenbeek: Of you.

28:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mmm.

28:34 Patrick Motsch: is something on the detail but we can put the same on the high level based on all interior answers. Based on the industry reports, what what they say, the same and what they say it's divergent We may cause of the tests there and then

28:47 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Well, and yeah can I because I made a short prototype of how this could Oh, very happy. Yeah, and that would make this discussion. Less how do you say that abstract and more tangible? Is it okay to share? Yes.

29:06 Patrick Motsch: And when we have this, oh, now I took something again, I should decide, but

29:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

29:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

29:10 Patrick Motsch: elfried your trigger so much. Then we have a methodology. The circle. This is the framework of the tech vision. We have a methodology, how to go there, the high level picture you have before with the russianal, how we do it. Stepwise, it's the process. Then we have all these

29:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: Exactly. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. And you could say, adaptive AI organization,

29:32 Patrick Motsch: Yes, based on this fields are cool.

29:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: you could add AI to it because that's, you know, that's going to be the core

29:41 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

29:42 Elfried Klarenbeek: driver as the whole thing is sort of an experience software game. That that's an, at least my feeling from looking at a distance.

29:51 Patrick Motsch: Based on all introduce I was very careful before I came to the interview for you to know. I normally wasn't into discussion we have before normally I did not address I and they are transformation too much because it was. People heard it so much, but based on all interviews that we had, I push it also to the front of the front. Now they want they don't want to wait.

30:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, sure. Yeah.

30:13 Patrick Motsch: They don't speak nothing happens in this company in their private life. It happens in the other company happens. The customer says it has, but not working

30:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

30:21 Patrick Motsch: for nine ways to try a little bit. But these people took for me,

30:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I think we can add little Spice. I agree with you.

30:27 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

30:30 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. Okay, is it okay to throw some slides that you guys to make it a little bit

30:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. You already have our permission. I think. Yeah.

30:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: more? Okay good. Yeah.

30:41 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, where do I need to sign?

30:41 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay, and they don't look nice guys.

30:49 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

30:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: And now I seem to have lost you. Well anyway, yeah, you see me?

30:55 Patrick Motsch: I'm here.

30:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, we're here. Yeah, we see you.

30:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay. You see this light or not? Yeah.

30:57 Patrick Motsch: Yeah. Yeah.

31:01 Elfried Klarenbeek: So what certain is, you know, the these elements and what is uncertain, I'll

31:10 Patrick Motsch: Help.

31:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: short description. And what you can do is then against these ideas here. Look at how does that turn out if we put The choices. So in it and I did that for a little bit here. I took these things here. Digital First Immobility Platform. I interpreted these as strategic choices. Yeah. Is that correct to Patrick?

32:43 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

32:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, and if you then look at these scenarios, it has in this scenario, a strong fit here. Excellent fit, perfect fit. And and here it's a defensive fit so this would make sense in all four worlds. Yeah. These things.

33:00 Patrick Motsch: Interesting.

33:01 Elfried Klarenbeek: I want to stop sharing but I need to get out of the meeting. Give me a sec, guys.

33:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Are you still sharing? You still sharing already?

33:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh, okay.

33:22 Patrick Motsch: What happens when he needs to go?

33:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay. Let's share, we're not seeing you anymore. Elfried. Yeah, going back.

33:33 Patrick Motsch: I'm back.

33:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Elfried. Oh, he's gone. Okay, he'll come back.

33:41 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

33:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Amazing.

33:43 Patrick Motsch: When it's getting most interesting then he just leaves. This is not fair.

33:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No.

33:49 Elfried Klarenbeek: I'm back. Yeah.

33:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: He'll come back. There you go. Amazing. Yeah.

33:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. I think it sort of makes it clear now.

33:58 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

33:59 Elfried Klarenbeek: How that would work? and the question is whether you want to introduce that or not to decline and in what way,

34:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Tomorrow. Yeah.

34:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

34:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think.

34:11 Patrick Motsch: But this would be the verticals would be the working sessions are then for phase one after the kickoff.

34:17 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think so. Yeah, because we don't have the right audience in the room tomorrow

34:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay.

34:18 Patrick Motsch: Like this.

34:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: to do this work. We are missing.

34:22 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

34:24 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. Yeah.

34:24 Patrick Motsch: Let's say tomorrow, it's to shape exactly this. So that's it, we need to work on

34:26 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

34:28 Patrick Motsch: the definition level. Not on the, on the in, on the information level.

34:32 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. And and can you already introduce the idea tomorrow or? Yeah.

34:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think so exactly. So I think we we can be very clear on and clearer

34:40 Patrick Motsch: I would.

34:44 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Let's say an example of how that could look. So I also like very much the slides that you just presented and we can bring those in as kind of, you know,

35:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah.

35:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: examples. And then we could and as examples can spark a dialogue. Yeah.

35:21 Patrick Motsch: For me. Exactly, for me it helps the shaping of this causal, causal network tend to do combined with the topics I address from for me guidelines because you feel I'm a little bit lost. There are so much dimensions, so much things that we could do so much things that we could. Oh, this gives a good guideline, I like it. I need

35:39 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay so then I have one more slide to share and that is how would you work with

35:42 Patrick Motsch: it.

35:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: this? You know at one point you need, human input. It cannot be all. Let's see. And it's this slide and I'll share the slides, all of them.

35:59 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

36:00 Elfried Klarenbeek: No.

36:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and we already spoken to this one. I love this slide. Yeah.

36:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, Patrick here on top. You see, you see here, the steps of the process, you

36:10 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

36:11 Elfried Klarenbeek: know, set the scope create scenario simulate and test. Yeah. So what happens here is you, you decide here, what I said, How does the scenario look like? Yeah, and then there's a human team and an AI thing to do. Yeah. So this could be something Yeah. A kick of whatever workshop. Yeah. And then I can. The next one is the environmental scan and driver analysis. Yeah. So you do a deep analysis and then you say Okay the human team needs to see, you know, Are these excess? Do they make sense? Do we agree with this thing? Yeah. And then the next thing would be creating the scenarios that you do that by AI. And then the team says, Does this make sense? You know these scenarios? Yeah. So you could have a dialogue around them and then in the next thing, you stress test them and you throw in all everything that you've created, throw it in the

37:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Well.

37:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: engage with this idea. And then there's one last thing that's might be in workshop for and that is You have to say, What are the five to seven, trackable indicators, you know, to see where we're going, Which of the four scenarios is actually happening. And what you probably will see in the future is that one scenario will unfold in one country and another scenario will involve in another country. Yeah, so it's not, it's

37:42 Patrick Motsch: Have to cope with all those.

37:43 Elfried Klarenbeek: You have to cope with them all at the same time in multiple countries. Yeah. that is, I think that how the reality will unfold yet because they are all probable and believable, these scenarios

37:56 Patrick Motsch: participates, we know the topic.

38:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds you if they agree if if they say we agree on wind tunneling,

38:17 Patrick Motsch: Finish it. What like

38:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Well.

38:21 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

38:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: the the strategy or or the framework. Yeah. Then that would be the way forward.

38:25 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

38:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

38:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But it's forward just because I think in your slide he said the first workshop is actually tomorrow is the kickoff workshop.

38:36 Elfried Klarenbeek: yeah, but but as you said, the question would be

38:39 Patrick Motsch: Or combinency.

38:41 Elfried Klarenbeek: What? What would be the core assumptions. Yeah. But it's, I would say, yeah.

38:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, that's too early for tomorrow so then it would be five workshops. Yeah,

38:49 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, or for maybe you can combine them, you know? And because you can all

38:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: okay.

38:53 Patrick Motsch: But the first only they are not there.

38:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Combine combine, which one.

38:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: You would I would say in my in my slide, it was a kickoff workshop. And then

38:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Combine, which one?

39:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: workshop too, you could do that in one.

39:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Okay.

39:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: But we need to do some work in terms of What is the prompt will be using? What is the model? Where is there a safe environment? Where we can put this data? Can we have an agreement with the client on on that, and so on. That's what we discussed Friday Young.

39:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And I agree. Exactly. And so we don't need to have all the answers coming out of tomorrow but We definitely need to have all the answers. In the proposals proposal for phase one. And so it would be helpful for us to have List of questions that the three of us are absolutely crystal clear on the questions that we want to be answered or at least, to raise tomorrow. Yeah, that would be helpful Elfried.

40:06 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

40:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: and just making this an end, so, Yeah, indeed. These are then among the questions like, if you want this then, is there a You know, a safe, text environment, etc, etc.

40:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: What. Yeah. Yeah. I,

40:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Maybe before before give it to you, but let's be clear. Also what are we looking for? Are we now looking at three times two hour virtual workshop that would make it very practical as in it to give a bit of? What are we talking about? What do you think this is elfried?

40:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: I think online is wonderful. It's good enough. And I think from the just, the first impression 1.5 hours would be enough, I feel

40:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: The three times one. Half hours? Yeah, good with it, with a similar audience for

40:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

41:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: all the workshops

41:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, and that's people that, you know, and besides that were after wind

41:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

41:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: of their company, you know, by means of scenario thinking.

41:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

41:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: so,

41:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And are you then looking at leaders? Or are you looking at people actually on shop floor? What do you think? Or a mix? What are you looking at?

41:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: I would say the leadership team, You know, they have to the SO and I think we

41:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay good.

41:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: need have we We need to have them understand that operating in this time in this time doing business in this time strategy is no longer a PowerPoint deck. You

41:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

41:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: know, it's a it's a living, it's a living process and and we

41:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But then it's clear that absolutely. But then it's clear to me,

41:50 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

41:52 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Sorry to intervene but go ahead. Sorry. I have myself. It's a living thing. Sorry, I interrupted you.

42:00 Elfried Klarenbeek: It's a living process and it so it's not a PowerPoint deck in someone's drawer. It's a process.

42:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Exactly. Yeah.

42:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: And we have to and we have to co-shape this process with them. You know what

42:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and

42:12 Elfried Klarenbeek: what Does feel good for you. You know, we have all these materials and tools. How can we create a methodology that you're comfortable with? These are the building blocks

42:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. so tomorrow, we need to have

42:23 Elfried Klarenbeek: This, you could this, you could discuss tomorrow.

42:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So, how can you do that with this subset of the bumt if you're talking about something so critical? So I think what's coming emerging in my mind now is actually we're talking about a bumt journey, Which would make total sense because it also answers to what Fabul and I have already been exchanging that it's but in his time in his mind it's January that

43:30 Patrick Motsch: That's good.

43:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: he wants to get going with this. But well, we could Yeah, it's not so arbitrary, but I

43:41 Elfried Klarenbeek: What what what I can what I can imagine? You're only this is sort of an hybrid situation where you say, Okay? We say scenarios, This is strategic issue, but by

43:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

43:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: the time we're get to Internal Link, we make sure everybody's there. It's a life meeting and we put these four scenarios on the floor.

43:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

44:00 Elfried Klarenbeek: And you can stand on each scenario and get to feel what's happening. There it becomes embodied there.

44:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: there, I think that is also a differentiator

44:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. And then you would have a really a dialogue that comes from embodiment together. On the four, probable worlds that are there that will be unfolding probably in their seventh. How do you say that different speeds in different countries? This is how. Yeah.

44:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. But super nice but then I would say go all in and let's go for a two-day workshop, which also Spends time on getting to know each other personally and or at least one and a half days that it's also with an informal dinner in between, because this will be a journey. And you need to informal. You need trust to pull to pull this through.

44:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, I like that. Yeah. so that would be here, you know, I I don't know if you see it where so strategy,

45:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We see it.

45:06 Elfried Klarenbeek: you know, has a certainly leadership comes in

45:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: yeah, I'm not sure if it would be there, but I'm seeing

45:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay.

45:14 Patrick Motsch: What?

45:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: No.

45:20 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: we would do a lot of prep virtually with differing stakeholders and then ultimately that would lead to an intervention was to be umt where we actively Work on these four identified and

45:37 Elfried Klarenbeek: But then, what would happen is first, the

45:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Scenarios.

45:43 Elfried Klarenbeek: Whole thing with cause and effect analysis. Yet out of that gone. The the several strategies or strategic choices. And then comes the methodology of internal LinkedIn. We can do that as prep, and then all of that will be presented in one goal.

46:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: yeah, all of these represented in one go with with

46:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: testing in one session.

46:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and this session objective is there embodiments.

46:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

46:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

46:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

46:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Because then it comes alive. So we were so we work with the slowest piece of the puzzle. It's the human.

46:27 Patrick Motsch: Finally.

46:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

46:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But also also probably the most important when it comes to really making things work. Okay, that makes sense. I think also, I wrote something of course in this proposal but we're not married to it. We said also we take a step-by-step approach. And I think high level, this approach still works as its documented but let's not. See your constrained about by the but terminology. Let's use them as a basis like we're doing now.

47:04 Elfried Klarenbeek: We need to have an answer on the question. What about data security around this, you know, Do we have a Do we have a secure AI environment where we could do this?

47:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

47:23 Elfried Klarenbeek: and if you don't have an answer to that question tomorrow, that just might, you know, cause some steer up some

47:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We have, we will have an answer to that question, 100%, Because Ethan is there we have we will have an answer.

47:38 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, but then if it would say, we need to run the whole thing in copilot.

47:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, then then, that's it. And we say,

47:46 Patrick Motsch: And we're only declared by.

47:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: and then and then as Anna Marie, put it well,

47:52 Elfried Klarenbeek: but,

47:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: First of all is, is risk of Earth. So,

47:55 Elfried Klarenbeek: I I did it but yeah I but I did it.

47:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: There. No. No. Let me let me let me finish this sentence, please. Because I

47:59 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah.

48:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So, everything needs to be first tested and also run by illegal. And then some outdated version becomes available to the business. And she's using private, she's using agents of all sorts of platforms and professionally. She's using the regulated checked by legal version of copine it. And she says, it's It's like we're working with the version 2000 and late.

48:37 Elfried Klarenbeek: So and and I I stress tested it, I did it in copilot. This work nothing's,

48:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

48:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: nothing comes out. That makes any sense, you know.

48:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But then we need to that, but then we need to come with a suggestion rather than

48:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: It's just

48:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: asking an open question. Yeah.

48:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: Exactly, that's that's my question and I'm now looking at Patrick because I think this is your

48:57 Patrick Motsch: I have I have a question at an answer. I also would raise a question and for

48:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: World.

49:01 Patrick Motsch: direction. She also said it underway to the actress, JP died, but I'll call too deep. Finally, it's a, it's a API gateway that I've internally involved in fall and all traffic. We say, I go through this gateway, because this gateway has a neutralizer. This is an object. This is what these company. To do. And this is what all company will do. Because then they are have this compliance flag checked, because they have to neutralized, because then they don't need to discuss AI with the with the compliance departments. Then they

49:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

49:41 Patrick Motsch: discuss the NEUTRALIZER, and this is a much

49:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. But how does it work then? So

49:45 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah.

49:46 Patrick Motsch: Where do you get it from from HR? HR knows how people know. So, organizations HR feeds your neutralizer to make automated without AI to put. The problem is, you cannot use AI to make automated neutralizer. He makes that.

50:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh so so you it just to shortcut it then I would be from in internal the company system, I would be able to go to chat. TTP, if I had a neutralizer

50:38 Patrick Motsch: You can go everywhere to go every because you make sure you make calls to all AIS to all models. You can ask for pictures for whatever. But the point is to neutralize this this passwords names and taxes. They go out to talk, come back and now the funny things because we tested it into organizations,

50:54 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, so do to cut it short. Patrick it would this neutralizer a solution would

50:56 Patrick Motsch: 80.

51:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: mean we could run another model?

51:21 Patrick Motsch: All models because all queries, your yours that audit log all queries going out.

51:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Oh yeah.

51:26 Patrick Motsch: You have in the audit log compliance will they, will, they will smile and be happy? And because they discuss now topic that they know. Now, they discuss about AI and methodologies and products. They are not ready for this afterwards. They discuss about the framework. How to neutralize this is not new for them. This is where they are at home.

51:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So, there are two lists what's the other list?

51:50 Patrick Motsch: Organizations, one is named, This is the critical poems because of data

51:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

51:56 Patrick Motsch: protection in Europe. The otters, you have autoplay. It's great. Credit card, phones, and all this

51:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

52:00 Patrick Motsch: stuff.

52:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: So wonderful. There's a solution. Yeah.

52:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: to celebrate before something is really working, because I can't imagine that

52:11 Elfried Klarenbeek: For working there.

52:12 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

52:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: for the fall is not thought of this, but fine, let's go in with the suggestion. It's always better to go in with suggestion or not sorry to be that as antiser.

52:21 Patrick Motsch: And ask and ask them. Perhaps somebody says Oh you have taste. It is a duck duck. This we need to

52:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good.

52:27 Patrick Motsch: know.

52:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But I like the neutralizer and it's tested invalidated software, you will see

52:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: So Patrick you have

52:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: working with other companies. Patrick, you have it in your possession.

52:36 Patrick Motsch: But also here. Yep you have it but also here I've been not tell them to set a

52:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. And this is I think is this this should be part of the General, AI

52:40 Patrick Motsch: seller product is the last thing we need to make the journey with them that their it thinks about this how they want to do it and we can advise them.

52:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Now.

52:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: strategy. You know, people should have access to more models than copilot

52:53 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

52:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: because copilot is just not cutting it. Yeah.

53:00 Patrick Motsch: Neutralizer, the neutralize is not the cost. The cost thing. The cost thing is

53:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So, implement that.

53:16 Patrick Motsch: the routing of all AI calls in the company, how to bring the people there. It's,

53:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: Right here.

53:22 Patrick Motsch: it's again, are we called it culture people to click the, it makes just an API gateway. It's it's it's far below million.

53:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

53:30 Patrick Motsch: you know, the technical

53:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But then it would be internal develop I see developments costs.

53:33 Patrick Motsch: Yes, full internal cost is opex.

53:36 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And change. Management course. Okay.

53:37 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

53:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, good. That sounds good.

53:43 Elfried Klarenbeek: How are we in time, guys?

53:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Well, 35 minutes left on my

53:47 Patrick Motsch: 25 minutes, we have

53:50 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay.

53:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Clock.

53:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: So what would be did? What would be the remaining agenda point for this meeting?

54:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: a meeting, we have a meeting with with Peter to run through the deck.

54:16 Patrick Motsch: Can we go to the slides and just make checks objects? What does what to present

54:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

54:20 Patrick Motsch: to have a shot or

54:20 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sure. Yeah.

54:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, let's do that, let's do that. And then because we need to send it out this afternoon as well.

54:25 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

54:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: I have them here. Yeah, I can yeah.

54:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Elfried this? Yeah, maybe you can present, and there's so many now in the deck that it's a bit confusing, which one we're going to use and which one not. So

54:37 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, but I don't, I don't yeah, sure. Okay, objectives. Agree on this a line on current states and needs agreement methodology. Next steps? Yeah.

54:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah, makes sense.

54:51 Elfried Klarenbeek: And agenda. Check in.

54:54 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

54:55 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

54:56 Elfried Klarenbeek: And that the synthesis of initial insights. I have and then there's two slides, strategic contacts and insights from stakeholder interviews. I did not have a look at this. but,

55:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: yeah, I I generated this with chat GPT

55:12 Elfried Klarenbeek: I I would, I would say my suggestion would be that the two of you sorted out because you have multiple ideas on this. Yeah.

55:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I agree now and we were there for the interviews.

55:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay good. no, but Patrick

55:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But I can say, from from my, yeah.

55:26 Elfried Klarenbeek: Has generated something else then then you your room. So, yeah, maybe best of both worlds would work here?

55:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

55:33 Patrick Motsch: I'll do it right Elfried, I will also go to these. Two slides, it's good. I'd

55:36 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay.

55:36 Patrick Motsch: also own but it's good that just take five minutes after it's good just to align

55:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: but it looks good. Yeah. okay, then

55:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and what was the first of those two slides? That was your slide, right? Now that was also my slide. Yeah, good. Yeah. Thanks.

55:56 Elfried Klarenbeek: And you could also start with the certainties and uncertainties here anyway.

56:01 Patrick Motsch: All right.

56:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, because that is something. Yeah, they're in the deck. Yeah.

56:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Can you? Yeah. And, you know, that time in a in a sticker or something.

56:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, it could be.

56:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks.

56:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: I was write it down here.

56:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks.

56:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Certainly uncertainties. Yeah.

56:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks.

56:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: benefit is not perpetual transformation. The end benefit is, we could save X or we could do x, or we could become x. You would talk about the end state, not about the process as the title.

57:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, so we set the end game is to be what is it? Adaptive organization.

57:34 Patrick Motsch: That's not just.

57:37 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, but

57:38 Patrick Motsch: How article? Yes.

57:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: we earn 3.7 million. And then after that, it became a no-brainer, the whole project.

58:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Now, I understand but there's so much money in this organization. It's not

58:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

58:22 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: really about that, it's more about value and about competitiveness,

58:26 Patrick Motsch: Okay, make another example of read, perhaps high level. So I would say when you ask, when you say sell to sell more X or or half less prices or something, then I would sell, would say, leading operator for immobility. It's still something because it cannot be money. It cannot be a process. It has to be A status or a result.

58:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay anyway but you did the slide should be about what? Why would the f*** you do this? You know, what does it deliver? And hold on.

59:02 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Agreed, I'll think of it.

59:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. That's the case for change here. And then methodology, what we put up so far as

59:04 Patrick Motsch: Good.

59:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: What we say is aI eats all these heads things for breakfast.

59:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Can you then delete the slide, 12 and, or make it invisible?

59:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah, sure.

59:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That one. Yeah, that one. Yeah, thanks.

59:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay.

59:29 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And then we agree that it is not visible. We are not going to show it.

59:33 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. So this is the the old mantra I was culture. It says you for breakfast. Yeah the new reality AI eats all of it. Yeah strategy culture change management and your operating system, it all gets eaten by AI. Yeah. So, the goal is to become an adaptive organization. Where ai awakens an activates people so people change, maybe you should reframe it. But this is just the first

59:59 Patrick Motsch: It just go there. The nocturnal is excellent.

01:00:00 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. So then comes okay if you want to become an adaptive organization because AI is

01:00:04 Patrick Motsch: No.

01:00:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: eating everything. Yeah, you need to put these building blocks in play. It's not just strategy anymore. You know, strategy needs to be

01:00:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:00:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: And what you could see.

01:00:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And now we have an adapted version of this one with people and culture.

01:00:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Revenue that there's an adapted. Yeah. That one. Yeah. And then you could see. Well, it takes time

01:00:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Could you hide number 13? Because otherwise it's not clear. Thanks.

01:00:34 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. The methodology would be over time these things. Yeah, we have to work on these things and these things become clear.

01:00:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and we need to add in the people thing here, right? Yeah.

01:00:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: People needs to be added. Yeah. Okay. And then, what would this is then in terms of What have we done, or What will we do conduct interviews kickoff, analyzing create this tech vision or whatever?

01:00:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:01:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, and then here, that this is interesting. I have added here strategic posture, Patrick that I got that from the IMD picture. You have to validate whether that's true.

01:01:15 Patrick Motsch: Meditated much light. Is it?

01:01:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Anyway.

01:01:21 Patrick Motsch: Yep.

01:01:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Then create roadmap and

01:01:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Then we elfried. Can we put people on slides 14? Can we put people on the same level as culture?

01:01:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sure. Yeah, you could

01:01:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Just to make life a bit easy. So you create create good culture.

01:01:36 Elfried Klarenbeek: Well.

01:01:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: You copy paste culture and you just put it, put people below the below culture. You know what I mean?

01:01:46 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, why would people?

01:01:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Oh, okay, it's a separate track. You think? Yeah.

01:01:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: I don't know.

01:02:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I'm thinking we could make life, easy design, life easy. Just put it there, but yeah.

01:02:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yep, but I think we need to have it needs to be methodologically sound, and then we find the design.

01:02:13 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, then we need it. Okay. Then let's put it underneath the data, I think.

01:02:15 Elfried Klarenbeek: What would you? What would, what would

01:02:17 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:02:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: What would happen there? You know, that would mean creating teams or Having people learn new capabilities or you know what? What Finding new talent? Yeah.

01:02:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, new yeah, finding Nutella having new new job, new job titles.

01:02:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:02:35 Patrick Motsch: also, happy people interacting from the county organization at Dsh for example, in an organized way also,

01:02:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Now that's more operating model, I think.

01:02:44 Patrick Motsch: This is an operating mode, okay?

01:02:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I think so. This this people and talent for me is really about new job

01:02:47 Patrick Motsch: Even it's also hybrid teams.

01:02:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: titles. Upskilling reskilling,

01:02:56 Patrick Motsch: me with my

01:02:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, hybrids, thank you. Yes. We have that there. That's a wonderful suggestion

01:02:56 Elfried Klarenbeek: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:02 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: tester. So people, what do we call it people and do we call it?

01:03:09 Elfried Klarenbeek: People and capabilities you could call it or people what whatever you want.

01:03:14 Patrick Motsch: Duplicate abilities.

01:03:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah, because we need to be able to land us. So hybrid human synthetic teams

01:03:24 Patrick Motsch: cost, and it's also many to mergers, HR and it

01:03:27 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Honor Reset said, Elfried, Anna Marie. Said I see it as the HR department, at the future. That's really nice. Yeah.

01:03:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: So I wasn't a Yeti. Are your Congress? I could not say like this. I think you have to work together.

01:03:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:03:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: So this could only come in after the data part is there. Yeah.

01:03:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. I think so. Yeah, it makes sense. Thanks for it. Good.

01:03:56 Patrick Motsch: Now it's good shaping. I like this. Yeah.

01:04:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, thanks.

01:04:01 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. Yeah, these people.

01:04:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I'll do the visual thing. That's okay.

01:04:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: And okay, so this so if you agree on high level, this is how it would unfold in this order.

01:04:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I do need. I do need one icon then with people capabilities and you've

01:04:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:04:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: been generating those elfrieds

01:04:21 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. It's the Google I can library and there you can put in the the color code.

01:04:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, okay. I don't know how to do that, but maybe you can teach me.

01:04:34 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, I'll do it. Yeah. Okay. So then we would you know, zoom into the strategy part. Yeah. As this slide says, We're now here. Yeah, strategy. And yeah. And then, and you guys have to think about this order. I don't know if this order makes sense for you but anyway, you get it. But if you zoom into the strategy part, then you would say We conduct interviews. We analyze results and we create division. Yeah, that's what we do.

01:05:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep.

01:05:06 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:05:06 Patrick Motsch: Sometimes.

01:05:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: And how would that look like?

01:05:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: For phase one. Yeah, for phase one. Yeah.

01:05:10 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. To zoom in. We have would create a course and effect diagram. And then define fields of action.

01:05:17 Patrick Motsch: so,

01:05:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:05:19 Patrick Motsch: I will perfect. Yeah.

01:05:20 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That.

01:05:20 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:05:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: and we do not do the domains or the strategic topics Patrick now or because

01:05:29 Patrick Motsch: What do you mean with the domains?

01:05:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Well, I think the my impression is that from at least my understanding from from your way of working, is that you choose strategic topics for those to use topics you do cause and effect diagrams.

01:05:44 Patrick Motsch: He met the shortcut. No, no. We make the call center effect diagram based on all interviews and all and industry reports such as their diagram. And then we see

01:05:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So we don't need. Okay, good. Okay, just good.

01:05:53 Patrick Motsch: points three points, tell us the strategic imperatives and all these things that we need based on this. It's exactly correct for it, it's ends to end from close

01:06:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

01:06:03 Patrick Motsch: to coastiogram. Finally, we have actions. And yes there is a tough between to start it strategies, analyzes of strategies in the environment and all this stuff.

01:06:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay.

01:06:13 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But how do you get to this cause and effect diagram? What are you what inputs do you need?

01:06:18 Patrick Motsch: Interview results and the industry reports, which show me the environments.

01:06:23 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Okay, so that

01:06:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, so we already have the inputs that we need.

01:06:26 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, and they already have also a elfrieds and yours input shaping. It what will be stable and what will be volatile? We have all improvements.

01:06:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay. Okay, good. Just checking. Okay. Thanks.

01:06:33 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

01:06:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Perfect. Thanks.

01:06:36 Elfried Klarenbeek: Then then you said Vision, Patrick in your methodology so I shaped it. I said Create tech vision. Oh, hold on. The what's happening? Sorry guys, I got kicked out. I'm still presenting.

01:06:52 Patrick Motsch: I'll be repeated.

01:06:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, you're still presenting and for us, you're still there.

01:06:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So strategic posture. I would then be the first element. Yeah then the vision. Yeah. And then the roadmap.

01:07:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. But the road might be Sony face to

01:07:11 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, yeah. I know.

01:07:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: so, Okay good.

01:07:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: But you're explaining the methodology here from the part of strategy. So this

01:07:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, but also I understand but then we should be clear because we're also

01:07:18 Elfried Klarenbeek: maybe this would say

01:07:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: scoping phase one.

01:07:25 Patrick Motsch: I would reduce. Yes, I

01:07:26 Elfried Klarenbeek: Hey guys, I I need, I need to take this call. This is an important call for me.

01:07:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

01:07:31 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, sorry about that.

01:07:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay. All right. Good.

01:07:36 Patrick Motsch: So we have to slide before with the end with the private shaping of phase one. We can also give an outlook but then I would put the slide to the end to say and after phase one this is the outlook for phase two. Something like this. We could

01:07:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Let me.

01:07:52 Patrick Motsch: Or authorized to keep it away.

01:07:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Share this screen.

01:07:59 Patrick Motsch: but,

01:08:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Where is it here? You can you can see this yet?

01:08:04 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, I said yeah. When you go back to the phase one, it's one before and we discuss a little network. This is an a nice results. Now it was another slide here, this one. Yeah. So here to the Liberals, we should show afterwards and only those I see what you mean.

01:08:26 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and if you if we go here

01:08:28 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

01:08:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And the last one create roadmap.

01:08:34 Patrick Motsch: It's too far.

01:08:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It's not fair, it's not phase one so that's fine. I mean we can indicate it We can say like not too. Sure. How that goes here because I'm not, I'm still. Still being. I'm still. Need to. Yeah, I'm used to powerpoints. Let me put it that way. So I'm still

01:08:59 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

01:09:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: still learning when it comes to Surface. Okay, like that. and then, we can say, Face to. Okay. I put it like that for now and make it more beautiful later.

01:09:39 Patrick Motsch: This is better because for the shaping at the context, this is really good. Now

01:09:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And here, we need to. Yeah, I think it's good to have. I think we could, we probably could Do we need to put in? Oh okay, say that's good. That's because Alfred also has.

01:10:02 Patrick Motsch: That's why I like now PowerPoint because we convert together.

01:10:09 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and also Google docs is better.

01:10:11 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

01:10:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Do we need deliverables here? What do you think?

01:10:16 Patrick Motsch: No, it's high level. I would not.

01:10:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, we go. Then to this one. You talk into this. We're going to this.

01:10:27 Patrick Motsch: The heads up for that. I've seen her face too. And what comes next? Now, we

01:10:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, well, that's the morphological analysis. This is what we agreed or with

01:10:31 Patrick Motsch: should

01:10:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: the sorry. Now this is what we discussed with Fabian. but we actually, Are suggesting a new way to do strategy. Yeah, which is

01:10:47 Patrick Motsch: But then we should.

01:10:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: AI ignited scenario based. And then we go into The Oscar Method. And then what we suggest to do, which is

01:11:01 Patrick Motsch: Have respect. This is good.

01:11:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: To have. Yeah, and then we can go into the where, where was it?

01:11:06 Patrick Motsch: I understand very hard boxing suggest. It's fine. Yeah. But

01:11:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And now you go into this scenarios and this is then the scenario this strategy track, which is then the bottom of this slide. Yeah. That's actually this. And then he's done a lot more slides, but I think he just showed this one. And this one. So there I'm a bit unsure, how what?

01:11:38 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, we should not dive down again. After the morphological box. We have to buy him from Fabian. We should jump. We should go up again for the next steps.

01:11:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: no, no, I think so, what we're actually, what we're suggesting is to deviate

01:11:48 Patrick Motsch: Or not.

01:11:52 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: from this because this is

01:11:53 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

01:11:54 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: but, but rather to go,

01:11:55 Patrick Motsch: The next is like then what happens then and then the meeting is finished.

01:12:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: You. Yeah, and and this, this could be this good and

01:12:03 Patrick Motsch: He wants.

01:12:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: But we need to pick the slides that we want to see. That we want to show.

01:12:14 Patrick Motsch: This is very much.

01:12:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I'm not sure if we need this. Yeah. But there's only so much time, and This is all okay. That's all that. Yeah. Okay. That's all Michaels. Okay. Yeah, this is what he did, okay?

01:12:37 Patrick Motsch: It's all high value but it's too much information.

01:12:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That's too much, that's too much we need to be selective. Okay, well, I think. What is your feeling? Let me just stop sharing.

01:12:52 Patrick Motsch: After a morphological blocks, this is the key points to have him in but I would switch it. This this light very show what we're doing phase one, this should be somewhere at the end to say and now we have we have next date. We have the next workshop and we need, for example, for more

01:13:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, but that's the strategy part. Okay, those workshops? Yeah, yeah. We need to. Yeah, that's the one. Let me

01:13:18 Patrick Motsch: Please, we need somewhere because you have the people there. During yeah.

01:13:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: First. Yeah, and Where is it? Too many slides. Yeah that one scenario trick. I'll share it. No. This one here.

01:13:49 Patrick Motsch: Yes, this one. I would like okay, we were just discussing about the number of slides then

01:13:54 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sorry guys.

01:14:00 Patrick Motsch: afterwards and the time that we have in the in the kickoff that at a certain point, we need to come back to the surface for the next steps with the people as the arrange the dates.

01:14:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good. I hope it's anything you need

01:14:12 Patrick Motsch: I know.

01:14:14 Elfried Klarenbeek: It got now. I'm happy. Yeah.

01:14:15 Patrick Motsch: Again. Yeah.

01:14:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay. So, I think what we agreed on is. Okay. So here we have the flow. That makes sense. That makes sense. That makes sense. Then we go into here. Just I need to make it more beautiful but I just want to make sure that this clear that create the road by piece in Phase 2.

01:14:37 Elfried Klarenbeek: And and here is people and capabilities missing it.

01:14:43 Patrick Motsch: Oh, don't.

01:14:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:14:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah.

01:14:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and where did you create this mocha?

01:14:52 Elfried Klarenbeek: It's it's part of this deck. It's hidden somewhere.

01:14:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

01:14:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: It's it's somewhere in there.

01:14:59 Patrick Motsch: But it's next phase. If you know, so keep it. You can also keep it and say be defined it and the next phase

01:15:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Now, but we need to already be.

01:15:09 Elfried Klarenbeek: it's

01:15:09 Patrick Motsch: Completely.

01:15:11 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, I got it.

01:15:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It it's in the deck. Your own you could you can adjust it. Yeah.

01:15:22 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, good. It's not helpful, okay?

01:15:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Hey, and guys, you have to agree on this whole topic of choosing posture and

01:15:29 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay.

01:15:35 Patrick Motsch: setting objectives, because I'm just forcing my ideas on you, but you have to feel comfortable with that. Yeah.

01:15:52 Elfried Klarenbeek: We are here. We are full here other for my side they can say is I say I say it always when it's but I only have this topical rise too much light but I see it's also working flat. I like it that all in one deck. But at this point I understood this morphological talks to get Fabian and then you should say

01:15:54 Patrick Motsch: You yeah, yeah, to say yeah to say, you know, it's been discussed. We had a look

01:15:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: Cool.

01:16:02 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

01:16:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yes.

01:16:03 Patrick Motsch: Yeah.

01:16:07 Elfried Klarenbeek: So then we say Okay we were We say that a new way of creating strategies needed. Yeah that's with scenarios and this is how that would look like.

01:16:13 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep.

01:16:16 Elfried Klarenbeek: You know, and what we say is that this is the purple stuff that's why it's purple on top. That's what we want to do. Additionally

01:16:24 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

01:16:25 Elfried Klarenbeek: In the project.

01:16:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah. And that would look like these workshops.

01:16:26 Patrick Motsch: but,

01:16:26 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah. That has to be a little bit more beautified than you. Yeah.

01:16:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: There.

01:16:37 Patrick Motsch: And tend to be, to be able to, in the meeting that we define. Those workshops is this realistic or we make it all with us people.

01:16:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, no. We don't.

01:16:45 Patrick Motsch: We don't do this strategy.

01:16:46 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We don't do this, but if we get permission to Do to further develop that an integrated into our phase one approach. I would

01:16:55 Patrick Motsch: What and it's yeah.

01:16:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: say,

01:16:57 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, then the next slide, your own 26 is when somebody wants to know something

01:16:58 Patrick Motsch: but,

01:16:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Provide itself.

01:17:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: about. What do you mean with scenarios? Yeah, this is definition of those two.

01:17:10 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:17:10 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. And a visual. The next one is a visual. How? Yeah, but throw it away, but yeah.

01:17:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: This is not needed something I would say, yeah. But there was one that you or

01:17:17 Patrick Motsch: Cool.

01:17:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: there was one that you showed and elfried, which was this one. Do we show this?

01:17:27 Patrick Motsch: Exam.

01:17:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Well it so what I did in this deck, I created two scenarios with two different axes. Yeah, and I didn't show it but it's in there. Yeah. Yeah that one. This is one. Yeah and the other and this is another one and so it's with alternative access

01:17:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

01:17:53 Elfried Klarenbeek: And as me just playing with it, to get a feel, you know, what is the what are the important access here?

01:17:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:18:00 Elfried Klarenbeek: and then, for

01:18:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I kind of like it's

01:18:03 Elfried Klarenbeek: 42 Is your your certainties and uncertainties.

01:18:07 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:18:09 Elfried Klarenbeek: And for me, and there were some questions that I had to Patrick and that's 40 36 Yeah.

01:18:16 Patrick Motsch: to 41.

01:18:17 Elfried Klarenbeek: 6th. Yes, exactly. Cool. Then I go to

01:18:34 Patrick Motsch: Yeah. Yeah. There's some questions around because I looked at. So here, can we not? Please call it digital orchestra because we've deviated from that we in. Yeah.

01:18:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: Great.

01:18:54 Patrick Motsch: And then the next slide your own. Yeah, I think these if the value hypothesis. Yeah. If there could be numbers, that would be nice. Yeah. And then the next one here, I looked at your certainties and uncertainty that put mine next to it. Yeah, maybe it makes sense. Have a look at it.

01:18:55 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yes, cool.

01:18:56 Patrick Motsch: Then 39. Yeah.

01:19:02 Elfried Klarenbeek: so I think that's it, don't forget to share on afterwards, make a PowerPoint or whatever pdf of this that I can access, you know, this keto,

01:19:03 Patrick Motsch: Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah you don't if you don't have keynote, okay.

01:19:08 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay. Hey, yeah.

01:19:13 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay. Sorry, I'll do it afterwards. Yeah, yeah.

01:19:14 Elfried Klarenbeek: You don't what can we do that later? Can we? Yeah. Okay, here. Yep, please don't call it digital orchestra. And then the question,

01:19:19 Patrick Motsch: Also here.

01:19:25 Elfried Klarenbeek: I is, how is this calculated? So I think for any serious consideration, you need to understand how what the algorithm is behind it.

01:19:35 Patrick Motsch: Yes, because there's a baseline and based on this baseline, we measure. Yeah, it's just the highlight. Yeah, it's good.

01:19:40 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, because there's qualitative interviews and

01:19:43 Patrick Motsch: For sure. Yeah.

01:19:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, how do you make the jump from qualitative to quantitative? And then you propose adjustments remove culture here because that's a big one. It's not a detailed one and then something around I call it Use Case Factory or

01:19:53 Patrick Motsch: so,

01:19:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: AI Innovation, or some innovative thing. And and governance AI governance, that should be part of it. And and you you can be very, you can very disagree with me. I'm just

01:20:12 Patrick Motsch: Okay, I can not put every perfect.

01:20:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Throwing on the Yeah.

01:20:17 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, but for tomorrow, let's be clear what we're

01:20:22 Patrick Motsch: I don't show this tomorrow. I think it is this is already preparation for. The

01:20:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I don't think so. No, I don't.

01:20:24 Elfried Klarenbeek: And then no.

01:20:26 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good. Okay, fine.

01:20:26 Patrick Motsch: next place is phase one that we work here already inside. Don't worry. You

01:20:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, so here this is a I've stressed tested. Yeah.

01:20:33 Patrick Motsch: everything. Still his time. Okay, 10 minutes? I understand. So,

01:20:36 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sorry guys. I'm a little bit pushy, but I have to move out. Yeah. So 40 Here,

01:20:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, no, that's fine. I'm happy.

01:20:42 Elfried Klarenbeek: this is your four things stress tested. Yeah, your foot before elements. but I think in 41 it needs to be more than four things you need to stress, test the whole operating model, you know, so anyway,

01:20:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah.

01:20:58 Elfried Klarenbeek: This is how far I got this morning. Huh.

01:21:01 Patrick Motsch: It's full full video. That's why I made the first version of this first phase.

01:21:05 Elfried Klarenbeek: Sure. Hey.

01:21:05 Patrick Motsch: Like I'm so happy to have inputs. Now, we're not at the end, you know, this is what is, what is crucial to have it now.

01:21:10 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:11 Patrick Motsch: So I take it. That's perfect and I can go on. Yeah.

01:21:13 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. Hey and Patrick I would love to be in dialogue on what we are creating together, you know that

01:21:21 Patrick Motsch: Can be chemical chemical meeting you and me because also I thought about this about these cars that I've worked on, it is real time tool that we work one session together.

01:21:30 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah, sure and your room should be there as well, but

01:21:31 Patrick Motsch: Can you? Okay.

01:21:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Now, I want to be there. Yeah.

01:21:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: my, my longing would be to Be in front of the game. I feel a little bit in the back of the game now you know just so in a couple of hours there's the workshop and yeah. So please let's

01:21:45 Patrick Motsch: Yes.

01:21:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Can we? Yeah.

01:21:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: work more advanced that we that we that that become some Yeah. So, so some relaxedness in the project. Yeah.

01:21:58 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Absolutely. And So, Patrick's, and I had a touch base on that. And, and basically, this was rather pragmatic approach getting to a successful kickoff after the vacation. And we already got going kind of duringification. But now we're going to phase one and phase two. We need to more. Let's say stable and robust heartbeat. How much for this Friday more. How about this Friday and How are you guys in terms of time? For that meeting to get started. Because then we also have the output of the kickoff.

01:22:38 Patrick Motsch: I can do it between 10 and 12. I have a time slot that I can use.

01:22:44 Elfried Klarenbeek: Here, difficult for me.

01:22:45 Patrick Motsch: No.

01:22:48 Elfried Klarenbeek: Am I Friday is really I could offer you from eight till nine.

01:22:54 Patrick Motsch: No has steering committee there.

01:22:56 Elfried Klarenbeek: Yeah. okay, May

01:23:07 Patrick Motsch: in the afternoon, not

01:23:09 Elfried Klarenbeek: I go guys. Can we do it? Can we try to do it At a different moment? I really need to jump out. Yeah, that possible.

01:23:17 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

01:23:18 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I will. Yeah, you need to jump out. I need to jump out but I want to have this meeting in the calendar so I will then continue with Patrick to make that meeting and then hopefully, Based on our mutual.

01:23:35 Elfried Klarenbeek: Monday. Monday 20 Yeah you have my agenda. You can you can check it Monday if

01:23:40 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: all the times in the world. Yeah. Yeah, I don't but fine. Alright thanks Elfried, I will pick it up with

01:23:45 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay, yeah. Hey guys, I'm short checkout for me. I'm happy We had this call. And I would have loved. I would have loved to do it earlier. And I wish for us to have more interaction. To understand what we're doing. Yeah.

01:24:02 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: The same. Thanks.

01:24:04 Elfried Klarenbeek: So, thank you for your time. Yeah.

01:24:05 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: How do you? How do you check out desert?

01:24:09 Patrick Motsch: I've accepted the same point. I'm happy that we get a line now and we shape this phase one that we all sleep. Well,

01:24:17 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, yeah, plus one on that on both of that. So, thanks Gents. And Patrick. Let's get that meeting in the calendar. Thanks Elfried for the early morning

01:24:24 Patrick Motsch: Yes, thank you.

01:24:26 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: work.

01:24:27 Elfried Klarenbeek: Okay good.

01:24:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay.

01:24:28 Elfried Klarenbeek: Chat Che.

01:24:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: all right, let me look at

01:24:33 Patrick Motsch: He said Monday morning 23, huh?

01:24:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: 22. Or

01:24:39 Patrick Motsch: 22. And

01:24:41 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I'm I'm at to have. I'm facilitating it today offsite.

01:24:49 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

01:24:52 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: So I don't have any time on Monday.

01:24:55 Patrick Motsch: Okay.

01:25:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Word wave. okay, and I have time on I would say. Six. What's it SLT? Offset and It's already taken. That is your. Wednesday afternoon. Look better. 24th of September.

01:25:54 Patrick Motsch: That's the community school means, 24th of September can do between 12:30. 4 o'clock.

01:26:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think probably. Yeah, I'm visiting a conference but I'm happy to step out and prioritize. This

01:26:17 Patrick Motsch: Okay, cool.

01:26:19 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I don't know the program of the conference.

01:26:22 Patrick Motsch: It will not be so good.

01:26:25 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: now, and I think

01:26:27 Patrick Motsch: Okay good.

01:26:28 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Typically. typically after lunch, I think we should be Of course, I want to have the informal moments because you know, that's where

01:26:37 Patrick Motsch: All right.

01:26:38 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: the magic happens.

01:26:39 Patrick Motsch: Yes, yes.

01:26:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: One o'clock is two o'clock here. Why don't we do between two and four on Wednesday?

01:26:48 Patrick Motsch: This is great.

01:26:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Two and four. So I created slots to and for

01:26:54 Patrick Motsch: So far.

01:26:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Okay, I call it follow. or a call, it's a kickoff so button for

01:27:03 Patrick Motsch: Planning Phase One.

01:27:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Planning. Phase one.

01:27:08 Patrick Motsch: I'm planning and implementing phase one, it's both whatever.

01:27:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Patrick. Yeah. There's one. That's like else. Okay, super, that's it. What you are? You already showing up as a as a, as a favorite so that's a good sign.

01:27:29 Patrick Motsch: Well, I'm happy to hear this.

01:27:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, join with Google meets. Okay, that works. Yeah. Good. Okay, I think I've got it now. Send, that's August.

01:27:45 Patrick Motsch: Thank you and that's already did or the PDF that I can look at it because I just

01:27:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good.

01:27:49 Patrick Motsch: go in. For my part.

01:27:53 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I will. Intermediate version for Patrick. But it's big as it's so big.

01:28:17 Patrick Motsch: Pictures. I guess.

01:28:20 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Okay, I will. I will share you. The I will share the link here so I'll see. I'll make sure that it's Uploaded. And then I will send you the link. Okay.

01:28:39 Patrick Motsch: So fine. Perfect.

01:28:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Alright my friend, thanks a lot for this. Very fruitful discussion, I will do a bit of polishing and then

01:28:49 Patrick Motsch: Then we have Peter.

01:28:50 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: A few for and then we have Peter in one hour. Yeah, good. And then anything else you need for that?

01:28:57 Patrick Motsch: Now, what is not? But it's also preparing me productive. It first of the

01:28:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good.

01:29:02 Patrick Motsch: divorcances we have Alfredo meat that I'm aware of what we have on the slides.

01:29:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Exactly. Super okay. Thanks speaking. One hour.

01:29:08 Patrick Motsch: Cool. If I,

01:29:11 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I'm outside.