wiki/mandates/vattenfall/112 Interview Alied - Sales and Operations/02 transscript.txt

00:00 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Early morning for you? Or did you travel flying yesterday?

00:00 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: No, actually I went with a train yesterday afternoon. It was very relaxing. Yeah, I was here at. I was in Berlin at 6:00. I thought. Give myself a bit of a break and prioritize health, and that was very good. Good decision, yeah.

00:19 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): So the train was on time and all cool.

00:23 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Train was on time and it's direct train, right? So no, no stress. So yeah, yeah. Amid.

00:33 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Hey, elite.

00:34 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Good morning. Yeah, we're in English because of Patrick today, but.

00:41 Patrick Motsch: I see. Yes, it's the Dutch company today.

00:45 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

00:48 Patrick Motsch: This this I cannot offer. This is too difficult for me.

00:51 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: The the fool for us of the Netherlands.

00:55 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): I would say with AI rapidly developing, how long will it take before we could just speak your own language?

01:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: I think you already can. Actually, there's already. I think Google has something that you can just speak your own language and it will talk back.

01:10 Patrick Motsch: With the headsets you can real time to real time translation, yes.

01:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

01:17 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): All right. So we were just quickly checking in. On the on the morning and how everybody's doing. So how are you doing elite?

01:28 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, I'm OK. I'm fine. Yeah, will be another busy week, so. But I'm fine.

01:52 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Cool. Are you Patrick?

01:52 Patrick Motsch: I'm very good this morning. Wonderful day, not too hot.

01:52 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Not too hot.

01:52 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Where are you located, Patrick?

01:52 Patrick Motsch: In near Zurich, in the how far area to the mountains, we had some really nice days latest days and now I'm happy to have a little bit rain. It's it sounds strange, but at the moment I'm happy when I have to work in the office.

02:04 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): OK.

02:06 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Are you yelling?

02:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, I'm good. As you can see, I'm in the waterfall office.

02:12 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Brilliant office.

02:14 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, the Britain offers. I'm. I'm sitting in the room where normally at a Fabian or someone else is sitting. When I meet them virtually. So that's nice. I met Fabian also just now back back from holiday, so I told them a bit about. How we kicked off last Friday, if you're happy. But yeah, good to good to be here. Bit bit bittersweet because it's it's back at work, which is only one and nice, but we have we had such a nice summer vacation with so many nice family memories that yesterday there were tears when I left. And and and also with me. I was like stuck so bad to be away from family. But in a very good way. So happy to to be here. Yeah.

02:55 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Cool. And I'm also happy that I will also introduce the the program. Good weekend, very busy weekend and also with football matches in the morning. So Saturday morning, 8:00 on the IT was quite early. But a bit good weekend and also did some surfing yesterday again which was also nice. I did a course during summer and now practiced another while another one yesterday. So it was nice. And now we're back to work. And we're here for the for the tech vision initiative. And I will immediately kick it off. Maybe already shared some things with you elite, but I think we, we we started from the from the angle of of these age where we see a great unit with great people, a lot of great things happening but also a lot of challenges and opportunities that we're facing. And if you look at strategy, we're quite often questioned about it. I'm not looking from the DSH perspective. When it comes to AI. How to incorporate AI? How can we accelerate automation in the system landscape? What do we want with plug in charge? What are the bigger themes? We should invest in should we buy? Should we build? Same things for hardware for connecting charge. When do we want to do it? When what are the boundary conditions? Strategic supplier management. How does that look? So there's a lot of questions and we launched this initiative. As a collaborative effort to to define and accelerate that vision or the Technology Strategy. And we're here with H3 company, so famil familiar face Patrick, new face to support us in this journey. And we start top from top. Basically, we start from the top. To to basically. Also refrain from details at the start. So we have interviews scheduled this week. With basically you or S. No directors funny and yes from it. And Tobias from procurement and after that we will really define and kick off the program. Then I would like to hand over to you.

05:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Wonderful. Is that enough for as an intro for you anit?

05:13 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): I think so, yeah.

05:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK, good. Yeah. So. Indeed. Some time ago and Peter and Fabio and approached me to to support this initiative and already since the beginning of this year or actually end of last year. I'm in the process of setting up an or a company called H3 Company which helps people, organizations and also people within organizations to. Yeah, to deal with what is now upon us. Due to the push from AI. This initiative is broader than AI. It's it's technology as a whole and it also encompasses supporting the DSH team to to develop their own signature in, in, in, in the business unit. So with me on in this in this context, very happy to to welcome Patrick. Patrick is very good at much better than me at describing his own expertise. But I can already share you. It is an absolute expert when it comes to digital transformation. Also building and running data centers, including the human side, so teams within data centers, etc etc. Building them from the ground. So that's something that I've never done, of course. So so bring in leadership culture and team development and and the and the and the real hardcore data and analytics. Expertise and experience from from Patrick. Makes the team. For today, and we're also. Supported by by my business partner from H3 Company who Peter already met. But Patrick over to you. Would you? Would you like to introduce yourself to Alex? She's she knows already too much about Peter and about me, so that would be very boring, I'm sure.

07:15 Patrick Motsch: OK. That's good. So thank you very much that you can do this call. I'm originally born in Geneva. I come from the French part of Switzerland. Now I live near Zurich, half area upstairs to the mountains in a wonderful area with my family, three kids and wonderful wife, and I learned in the last call. Also, my kids are wonderful because last time they said so I have purchased. I don't say this. My digital journey started about 20-6 years ago. Oh, I first made the civil engineer. I also made architecture in in Switzerland in 80. Huh. And then suddenly I was combined with communication and it and this entertained by what I said before designing implementing data centres. But more and more, this went away from technology. It was already there, people, business to have the right teams in the right places. It was a timing topic to having eighty months such a data centre. Ready. It is quite tough. And finally, then, this AI technology raising more and more the last four years I was changing again. So back from infrastructure back from it still in the backhead, but the people and organisations to support them to integrate this AI, which finally is, I would say 5% AI, 95% is integration work with teams, with people on this journey.

08:43 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Thanks Patrick.

08:45 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Can I take those? Do you want me to take over? Do you want me to take?

08:49 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before, before you do that, just a note that this meeting is being recorded by GDPR compliant. You European server based AI note taker and yeah if you want you can also of course get the link to the to the interview. But the the idea is that this stays within the four of us and Peter, Patrick and me used, let's say, the outcomes in the highlights. Of this interview as inputs for for for the next steps, which Peter will. Tell you at the end of the interview. Cool. Yes, please. Please take over if it's OK, yeah.

09:32 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And last week I learned that I can object against it, right? I took a course in, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to but.

09:41 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Absolutely.

09:42 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. Yeah, but I'm I will. My name is Elizabeth. I think I'm the person with the the least knowledge on tech or on the digital, but I guess that also has a positive side as long as I still understand it, then I think everybody will understand it in our department. I'm the director of SN. ONL. So after Peter left, I took over a year ago. And what else? I live in Amsterdam. I'm happily married. I have two children. And yeah, I'm now just starting to work with copilot and I have been sometime the asset for asset management, asset management, the manager for short while before I took on this job. So from that perspective. I do have some knowledge on what's going on in the team. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to this meeting. So very curious. The topics that you are going to raise, and I also think that there's lots of room to improve. Internally. So I'm really glad with this initiative.

10:57 Patrick Motsch: Thank you, Alex.

10:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Oh, wonderful, wonderful. So also wonderful kids. We assume at least right for the just for the notes. Yeah. Yeah. Not only happily married, but also happily parent.

11:10 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): At the moments where they are lovely, they are lovely. Yeah, that's true. Most of the time they are.

11:16 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We can shake hands. Cool. Well, maybe just to to to continue where you left off, which is indeed lots of things to to improve, so. If it's OK with you and we now get into the, we ask you a few questions and Peter, please feel invited to chime in, right, whenever something spontaneous comes up. I will ask the first bunch of questions and Patrick will take over and and and and I will take notes and and then we aim to yeah to be done. A few minutes before 10. So you're not sitting on the hot coals. If that's an English saying, I don't think so. But you know what I mean. Maybe let's start with the collaboration with with DSH from your perspective. Right. So. Maybe you can. Yeah. And of course, I'm Peter and me were a bit pre informed, but maybe just for with one sentence, give a bit of context what the nature of that collaboration is for, for Patrick and how satisfied how satisfied your current Dr. with the services and products provided by. DSH. And also the just the call, yeah. OK.

12:30 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. So from the parts of hardware, I think. The specialists are in central team, so whenever there's a tender or something else where they need input from the hardware team, they will approach them and also when it comes to all kinds of firmware updates, running these and testing new firmware. So we really see them as our. Firmware specialist and also our specialist on the hardware and also. Our specialist in terms of issues that, let's say, the technical people within our local organization cannot solve. So this is how we regard them in terms of, yeah, what kind of work do they take home from a hardware perspective? And on the digital side, I I honestly have to admit that I'm not really aware. I know that they work with sprints. I know that there are teams. I know that in the Top Model ideally. MCO is giving them the cues on what they do and I think in practice. So we highly depend on all kinds of systems like share also in operations. We flag what I see happening is that we flag often. What's not working? Well then this is taken in and then it becomes a bit of a black box. Well, yeah, what happens to fix? That's more or less it in a nutshell.

14:04 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And so is that. Are you then satisfied or not? Or parts you are and other parts you are less. Or how how would you? Say that.

14:15 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): I think that's so. So a lot of things are not delivered in time. And that that's that's a really serious issue because. Yeah, that means that a lot of also manual labour needs to be done continuously. And in some respects, we are really fast growing. So we have more and more people using our charge cards. That's increasing the workloads, but it's not. And from what I understand from the operations and there's lots of room to to to optimize things, making it more efficient and that's currently not done yet.

14:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And does that apply for digital or also for hardware? Well.

15:11 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): What's the if?

15:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: That things are not delivered on time etc etc. What you just said?

15:16 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Hmm. Now, that's not my experience, but so I think the cooperation itself is quite good. I think there's bad communication could sometimes be improved, so I think an example maybe that also Peter saw on the e-mail yesterday is or maybe last week is that we don't always fully understand each other so.

15:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK. With digital or with hardware or both.

15:47 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, we've, we've hardware.

15:47 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: With hardware. OK, OK. Thanks. Or maybe on that note, what what you know where and how do you feel the collaboration between SNL and L and DSH? How can it be elevated to to next level? What would be what would unlock that?

16:07 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. I think to to have more clarity on who's working on what and when and how to cooperate with each other and and when I was the manager, we we did. Make like an overview of of all the positions that we have and what people are working on. So we try to start with that. I also think that on the level of meetings we've had pretty clear on operational, tactical strategical level, who's participating.

16:33 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Mm-hmm.

16:34 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): So a lot is also going. Well, but I think and that's maybe also a challenge for the hardware team, but it's not up to me to to, to answer. That's more maybe a question from my side. I think that the asset management team in NL. Working quite well. We have the highest upside, so there are. To some extent also. They depend on the central team, but they're also capable of doing. Things themselves and take pride in that because they are delivering a good job. So. And of course that then gives a bit of tension. If somebody says, hey, you need to do this or that and then you think, hey, yeah, but I'm running my business quite well, so. These kinds of tensions. So I think clarity on who does what and how do we cooperate that that will help. And I think it's also a bit of back office front office. So of course, we like all kinds of things to be in place for our customers or to win tenders.

17:48 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

17:48 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, from a different perspective, that's maybe not ideal because you need to manage them more. Hardware supplies just to give an example. And it's it's all. It's all fair. So the local perspective is in some way is true, but also the central perspective is true. But then? It's really about understanding each other. That's that. Yeah, that both. Be there at the same time.

18:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. And I imagine that it also helps. But that's just an assumption I'm testing with you on the elevator collaboration. It would help for things to be more that you can depend more on on what is being delivered when, and that there's less of a black box. Even though I understand that that black box also includes MCO for a large part. But yeah, how do you see that?

18:41 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Get the black box becomes less. Yes, I think in general, if you can be quite transparent on where you are and that's not sometimes regarded a bit as control. But I think if if the transparency is there then you are really on a high professional level.

19:01 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. OK. Thanks.

19:03 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): So yeah, that's something I fully agree upon.

19:06 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. OK. Then switching to more the tech vision and let's say. Our collective, which includes you, our thoughts on the framework, so this initiative aims to develop, implement and maintain the tech vision for the BU. How would you define a tech vision? And especially because? You are. You regard yourself not as a techie. I'm I'm interested to to learn your perspective.

19:38 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): This is a difficult question for me to answer tech vision.

19:42 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It's, and therefore it's also very easy would be my, yeah.

19:50 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): I think it needs to be clear what our strategy is there. What kind of approach do we take?

19:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep, Yep.

19:57 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And and then there's probably a couple of choices to make in this strategy. Here. So do you want to be really flexible or do you want to be? Say no. Every once everything to be managed perfectly. But that means we need to make choices. Difficult choices. Listen to local demands. Or is it? Is this is a hardware. This telling local teams what to do.

20:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

20:36 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And I think you need to understand, of course, what what, where is this landscape going to? I think you already mentioned AI, but these kinds of things and and also the needs of the customer. I think more and more emphasis. Has been in the past years in tenders on asset management. So how is this run? So the demands will only increase, so it will become more difficult and also saying if the uptake is already. Quite high in the Netherlands. It means you need to put a lot of effort and maybe also money in in adding one additional percent. And is that where we really are? Or. And then also these different KPI's per countries is a bit complex in itself so. From that perspective, it's it's it's it's more difficult in the Netherlands because we are already quite high. We all have the same central budget, but we need to increase to an even higher level where locally they are on a on a lower level. I think it's probably more easy there to to to get some gates. But I'm not. I. I don't know. That's just from.

21:57 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yep. Yeah, very good. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. And I'll just share what it's work in progress, but I'll share how we how we think about what should be. And it's just for you to kind of look at. It's very high level. It's so high level that, you know, in a way, you can't really be. You can't really miss it, right? But this is our starting premises with things that it's tech vision should include. So you already mentioned strategy, so that's definitely part of part of that vision. It also means strategic posture. So what kind of? Yeah. Are you like a front runner, are you? Are you more defensive? Etcetera, etcetera. There's also kind of how, yeah. How do we show up and how do we see ourselves? Right, which which also defines how we show up and where we put our attention. Leadership obviously at the at the center we lead this very important part is also culture. What? What? Patrick said. Also the the people side of things and then how to make it operational? So there's a lot of parts of that also. Is it operational? So that's why there's also a large part of that in what we call the operating model. And of course, all of this depends heavily on on data and and nowadays it's data and AI. So this is how we how we see that any any obvious things are not here for you for now.

23:36 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): No, thank you, Sir.

23:39 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK, good then. Yeah, like I said, we're using this as a kind of a prototype going into further exploration, but happy to happy to hear that. Next question would be, yeah, what? What initiatives or or trends or things are relevant for us to know from within snow in the Netherlands within? This this context.

24:06 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, I already mentioned that we have growing demands from our customers. So more and more, they want us to do more on how we manage assets. So they want more reporting. They want us to be more proactive. These kinds of things. What was your question again? What is?

24:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: What initiatives or trends or things are relevant for us to know within this context from from within? Then there let's.

24:41 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, but I was also thinking looking at what you just showed. So in terms of the organization, I think maybe it's not culture, but it's maybe organization. Is that one of the observation that I have is that we also need to run a lot of projects, whereas the central team has a lot of experts and you're not necessarily a good project manager when you're an expert and and and and we don't distinguish between these. Things internally. So we think, OK, you're the expert.

25:08 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Ah, OK.

25:09 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): So you're in Leeds, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good project manager. So if we need to onboard, for instance, new hardware, who's then managing these projects and these? These are also things that need to be clear.

25:24 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah.

25:27 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Maybe just a loose remark, but.

25:31 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Yeah, good point. Yeah.

25:38 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): What trends did you say right?

25:41 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, and what initiatives? Maybe there's already some digitization things going on or automation of business processes or?

25:48 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): As with this asset management information system, that's something I really believe in that that should be there. I also think that competitors are ahead of us.

25:56 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK.

25:57 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): That's what we also know. So in so in that sense, it's interesting to to ask people about LMS when they did the hack because that gave them an inside rise on how it was run by competitors and then they saw, hey, the competitor is doing some things far more efficient.

26:12 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: OK.

26:14 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): So for instance, the maintenance part. Partners get an automatic queue when something is wrong and then they need to go to charging station and I think this is also the purpose with the asset management information system and I think that that in general I think our system. So people like Boston will say we have all the information. Yeah, that's true. And we know tons of things. So when I was the manager of the asset management team. I also asked OK how many things can you see in the technical guide told me like, yeah, I can see like 8000. Cute on things that are not how they should be, but then it's like a bit like being a doctor. OK. If somebody has like, 20 complaints, where do you start? Or do you just think go away? You're a bit of a hypo.

27:03 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, yeah.

27:05 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Crite but but but so you need to see. OK, this is really serious. This is this person. This is needs to end it. And this is a really big batch. I don't know, but I don't think that this is automated yet and this is also something. Of course, if the system. As so much information on what's not how it should be, how how do we follow up upon that in a structured and as far as possible automated way. So for large parts, but I think it's also something we talked upon before Peterhead for a large part, maybe you. Can have automatic queues, so just to restart and it will solve it. And maybe there are also big batches with simple things that we. Can filter or maybe. Some things have to raise immediate red flags, like who? Hey, this is like a new issue that we don't know. This it also needs to be seen and understood by the central team. I don't know, but I don't think this is how we currently deal with this information. So we have the idea that it needs to be understood by the by the maintenance partner, but I I probably we can do way more, right?

28:15 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, yeah. So that would be also my last question and then handing over to Patrick, So what? What is your vision on for, let's say, NL's role in? Yeah. What we call the the business units, digital future, if you wanna give it, give it some words.

28:36 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Our rules that we are we, we are the end user, I say. And we we should also be able. I think it's it's probably never finished right. So it's like this plan to check act. Somebody's going to be the owner of this or hey, you are probably going to check this vision again in in one year, etc etc. So. You probably need to have people to to to. To challenge it. Repeatedly and then also say OK what? What things are not in place that should be there and it's not only the asset management team is also then the tender team and the operations team in terms of digital. So I think operations is really depends a lot on the digital team. I would, I would think. To do their work in in the most efficient manner.

29:36 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Thanks. Patrick handing over to you.

29:40 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): So the topic you just mentioned I think is highly relevant on the. So for Patrick, this is probably new, but all those stations, so they are connected, right? They're they're sending tons of information to our system all the time about statuses. What errors about behavior, and I think today this generates charge points there about temperature charging. Modules in the charging station, whether or not they are working, and so they're sending tons of information. Currently, the team is translating that into actions for operations, but you can imagine with thousands of stations or this also generates a lot of work and that currently needs to be interpreted. I think a lot of a lot manually, right? Elite. So I think this is this is where I see, especially in our AI part of this program, a lot of an important part. How do we how we're going to automise this also in combination of users reporting something? So we have so much knowledge on the back in the back of our courses. System landscape so much probably we already know before the customer's calling us, but today we either wait before for the customer to call or we we, as DSH, expect the S&O to look into all those rows of information and then yeah, do something with it. I think here's.

31:04 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And the central team has no time. That's what I understand more or less, right, that they're not really, unless it's really something that that the local team is not able to to to resolve. But I think it's also my impression that they are really busy. With the firmware new updates. Choosing new hardware, testing new hardware. It's. I don't think they have really time to follow up on this.

31:32 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): No. And then my last point and then we go back to the interview to you again. But imagine we would. Increase our asset base by 10 tenfold, right? So 10 times as much than we would have, let's say 400,000 stations. I think you would need to have a full floor of people here to manage that. And I think this is this is where I would would want us in the tech vision initiative to look look into because I fully believe.

31:59 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Sir, can you repeat that? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Can you repeat that? Sorry, Peter.

32:03 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): So so if we would, if we would have a much bigger asset base, we would need to have a lot of people here in each team to manage all those messages, errors and things where I believe there is a crucial part in this technology initiative to look into. Automation and AI to solve this for us 90% in combination in combination with customer interaction because on the one hand and then I will stop because it's of course your interview elite, but I think it's relevant. So on the one hand, there's information that is generating in our IT landscape, right? A station sending an error, for instance, and there's customers interacting with us either through WhatsApp or sending something in the in the app. Something is not working, but I think 90% should be solved automatically by the system from those two streams.

32:54 Patrick Motsch: It's very crucial point that you are with assets linked to the staffing count currently.

33:02 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah.

33:06 Patrick Motsch: But I take over. Where you see the current and future challenges for your business unit and for the business units and for the Netherlands that you drive now your current and future challenges that you see?

33:24 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Hmm.

33:25 Patrick Motsch: So I give some examples. Things like time to market, limited financials and humans, things like this to have some short lists that you can tell.

33:38 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Good to see you. How far are you? I think one of the issues that that we that we have is that. That the market is a bit shaky at the moment. So on the one hand you want a hardware suppliers to be you want them to be there forever. So for you can also have. WhatsApp on the daily spare parts for a really long time in the future. On the other hand, you want of course to do to be competitive, to be innovative. So preferred supply strategy is not ideal. So maybe you need to have more, but then it becomes more difficult to manage. So I think that's one of the challenges. To balance that out in the right way and also having different markets where we are active. I think that one of the challenges is that we have. We are growing, like Peter said. So you can wonder if the way we are working, if that's really how we can can go on in the future. I'm also worried about safety in all honesty. So are we giving that sufficient attention? So last year we had an issue and it's still not really properly resolved, but it boils down to the point where where the whole market is seeing that maybe the the full protection is not ideal the way it is, but it's more really a hardware issue. But then if you have such a big base also. Repairing this is a risk in itself, so probably it will be phased out and and it's also not possible to bear these kinds of costs, because if you need to retrofit it, it will. It will just kill the business case of every, each and everyone in the market. So it's it's such a huge problem if you have a serious hardware issue. It will be such a huge problem that it can simply not be addressed. Because it will. Yeah. Cost too much money. Yeah, I think it's really hard to from from. To answer this question.

36:05 Patrick Motsch: We don't need each pizza, but it's it's OK for the for the. I think the topics that you address first is that you have first in mind. They are more relevant, but can you address also looking to the future when you look what happens internationally, the regulations, the environment, what do you think, what risks will raise?

36:26 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): So in terms of in terms of this departments?

36:30 Patrick Motsch: Department and also the trend, the business unit. What do you think? Feeling experience.

36:43 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): I think the market will be more and more regulated, but but if it's so, I have a background in regulatory affairs. In in normally also always have a reasonable time to to implement changes, but you need to be flexible in that sense. So a lot of stock, for instance, that's that's highly risky if if you if you see that there are regulatory changes coming. So where you do need to have let's say a payment terminal or whatever. If you're then stuck with a really big old batch of hardware, yeah, that's not ideal of course. Yeah, I think.

37:31 Patrick Motsch: OK. It's OK if we don't all test, we continue. Based on your experience, how should we engage the Netherlands team to ensure that they are aligned with and supporting our business transformation goals that you just want to set? What can we learn how to integrate?

37:55 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): I think they have a lot of operational knowledge and from this one can learn a lot so. And I think they they have probably. Yeah, they have the biggest batch of assets. We have really big concessions, so we have really big contracts where we, let's say corporate with 80 municipalities and need to install thousands of charges. So with really big clients, so we operate on a large. Skill, I would say compared to, say, the older markets currently. Of course we are different in the sense that we do a lot of AC or the majority of what we have is AC, where the other markets focus on DC. And so we would like to grow in DC. But we are a front runner and and. The market leader, when it comes to AC in the Netherlands.

38:53 Patrick Motsch: OK. And how you think we should engage the Netherland teams that all can profit from this experience? This know how this one step being ahead? How? How we could engage these resources?

39:09 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): In this project that you're currently running.

39:12 Patrick Motsch: In the vision that we do and also for the whole organization to profit from from where we are already good. Any ideas? The creative question.

39:26 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. I think I would like an exchange, so let somebody of the hardware team maybe do the work. Work a month or two within the local teams to really understand and see where they are day-to-day facing, I think a really better understanding so and also for the digital team. Work, work a day or two in operations and see what they come across to know to get this understanding because we have a lot of translators, we have process managers, they need to translate everything to the to the tone and then from the tone it needs to it. Like when you have this Wisp game and I'm saying and we go round. Before it ends up with DHH, there's a lot of things that get lost so. If you don't want things to get lost in translation. You can of course do classical things like having meetings and discussions, and it's all fine, but I think then it also would be helpful just to yeah to to really work in a local team or have some exchanges and maybe also the other way around, so would also. Be interesting for somebody in in the local team, maybe to run a project or whatever in that, in a central team.

40:48 Patrick Motsch: Very good. So to be more specific on on this point, what unique local opportunities you see that we could profit also in our in our DSH vision is there's some topic that you say, hey, guys here can really profit from us. For our vision.

41:17 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): In what sense? Profits. Yeah, it's it's such a broad question I.

41:21 Patrick Motsch: What do you what do you do? Very good. Better than the others that you say. Hey this we should share.

41:27 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Rip sign. It's a really clear KPI and I think we are really good at it because we really on top of it. So it's the way we manage our maintenance partners. It's the way we we. Yeah, take action upon what we see. And it of course also gives Rick Shinne in our local team. But because we're not doing everything, of course we also make choices. So sometimes people can be complaining a lot about some charges that are not working. But they take a pretty rational view and say, OK, we focus on the biggest badges that we can solve the easiest. Even if that means that, let's say a charging that is already not broken for a long periods will not get attention, and maybe because it's it's only one case.

42:20 Patrick Motsch: Let me allow one deep dive. How you decide where to take focus? Is there a system or is it experience? What is? What is the driver?

42:32 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): In the mid, so they try to digest it, but I think they now do it themselves. Ideally that's it's it's done. The system does it for them.

42:45 Patrick Motsch: Thank you.

42:46 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And I think it's also experienced they know what's going on and yeah.

42:55 Patrick Motsch: Right. So finally, let's dive. Let's go back from dive. What is good and should be kept and what should we change and summarize?

43:08 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): My impression is that that the teams are really knowledgeable. I think that for the hardware team, I think it's a lot about the cooperation and and. About making it easier to decide on what to act upon. So I think the responsibilities and rules should be come more clear and and then also saying hey, we have a lot of projects, how do we deal with that? Because I don't think there's really a project manager's really in in both, so not locally, but also not centrally. So I think that's the issue. And from a digital perspective? I think it's really important to deliver on time and manage expectations. And also have under real understanding of what's going on locally. So it it seems that there are far far away. Sometimes I guess. But that's not really I'm really now.

44:13 Patrick Motsch: The headlines. It's it's. It's great for us to have the headlines here.

44:19 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): It's a bit like this, but so maybe it's not a full picture, but OK. But I think that in itself the hardware team doesn't feel really far away from me. I do feel that there's sometimes, and it's also it's also interesting to see how big a difference individuals make here. So some are really great in cooperations and others. It's. So that's also something that's in there. So it's not always connected to structure. It's also connected to the profile of people that we have in. I think the team would benefit from really strong communicators.

45:01 Patrick Motsch: It is a great point at the end to say.

45:05 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Or somebody with project management skills, you know somebody that's gluing things together and be a bit like the oil man in between.

45:12 Patrick Motsch: Yes. Yeah. Great point is I like for the end. So last question, did we miss anything? When you look back what we ask you that you would say, hey, this also would like to tell you what would be important that you reflect when you make another decision and you go on.

45:32 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Uh. Yeah, I think it's hard to. It's really from the scratch, right? So it's easier to to if there's some like a blueprint already to for me to respond upon, but. But yeah, let me think about.

45:54 Patrick Motsch: Your opinion, your I fully understand. I fully agree. By the way, it was also discussion to give a script before or just to ask, but what we think also what we know, what you see, what you experienced. This is most valuable that we can get.

46:07 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. Uh, no, I don't. I don't have anything to add. Yeah, I think you should really talk to somebody like in my team and people like Bob. So that would be my recommendation.

46:20 Patrick Motsch: You have this name Sharon because I don't have this. You know the people.

46:23 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And also of course, when it comes to digital talk to. But you probably already have a long list right of names that you in our organization that you would like to talk to.

46:36 Patrick Motsch: We already have.

46:37 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, and also.

46:39 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Could be could generate, of course, yeah.

46:41 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. And also Jasper from operations. And. Yeah. So yeah. Houston.

46:52 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: For, for, for now, we're keeping it small because we are preparing the kickoff. But in the phase one, which Peter will also share and definitely there are many, many people we we can think of talking to, but we also want to do so in alignment with with you and and your peers.

47:11 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): The only thing I haven't really touched upon is where we can automize things. But I think that there's one thing before it's also the data quality. That's a big issue, right? So a lot of data. So if you if you would like to know more. And and also. The idea that we have with how many systems we are working, what's our system landscape looks like. So for instance, for this public business, Houston Ham and I has looked into it. Because some cues just don't reach us. They get lost somewhere and it's because our system is connected to the system of the diesel. So the grid operator, but from to municipalities, from tooling, that's the municipalities used to do this processes. What else? Contract management system. So there's tons of systems with a lot of information flow, and they're also. So. So we sometimes maybe focus a lot on our own systems, but do have high efficient processes. We also need to interact with a lot of different systems, not only our maintenance partner but so. But I think this is known.

48:34 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Maybe one last question from my side, is there any?

48:39 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Sorry, Peter. Peter, sorry. You said data quality is an issue. To know more about this and then I was like, I'm going to write this down. But then you didn't say it. Select.

48:49 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. Talk to Houston hammeray. And he also has made like, an overview of all the systems that they interact. And I think there's 80 flows of information just for this one tender concession.

49:02 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks.

49:05 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And not everything is a happy flow. So that's often what goes wrong in when we develop things for our operations that we think in terms of happy flows. But then what happens to everything where somehow things are not in a happy flow and they just fall out of our sides? And then we literally lose track of of charging stations that are in development?

49:30 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Sorry Peter. Thanks.

49:34 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): No, no, no problem, no problem. And we still have some minutes left. So I was thinking maybe so as part of the vision, it could be that we also need to make a few choices here and there, right? For instance, on buy versus build or on giving direction on the I we want to work with all all potential suppliers in the world. Oh, no, no, no. We want to work with selective part of suppliers. I mean, it could be a strategic choice. What kind of strategic choices do you see for us to make? Do you see more strategic choices for us to make?

50:13 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. I think if if if we see that our performance is not so great. In Digibility, in terms of delivering in time. Yet then then you could also consider maybe going externally, right? So we think our back end is is pretty OK because that's what Accenture says in the past. But but. At the pace in which this market grows is really fast, so we cannot just hang on to this Accenture. Conclusion for let's say two years. That's quite. Others could be ahead of us in that time. And how do we make sure so all our competitors are looking into externals? So and we are, we are yet having. In which extent do we do we really get the complete overview because we are really focusing on our. Right. We are really internally focused. We don't have contracts with them, so we can also not judge their performance. I'm not saying it's better, but we we need to acknowledge that we don't know, right?

51:23 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Mm.

51:23 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): We think that our internal system is the best. But, but that's probably an assumption that needs to regularly be checked and reviewed again.

51:35 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: And you're you mean specifically the deliveries of the digital team or yeah, OK, fine.

51:47 Patrick Motsch: Thank you very much.

51:50 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): And they and and people are located far away, right? So that's also. I think we are struggling with how to manage these teams as well because like I know probably most of the people in the central hardware team. I. I hardly know people in the digital team a couple, but, and maybe that's my my fault. But I think that also a lot of them are really far away.

52:20 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah.

52:21 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: It did geographically, also. Yeah.

52:24 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah. And then also their understanding really of the business, so, so when we had this MLA project, I was discussing with one of them things. What we are doing in the Netherlands and he was in he wanted. So he was really like, yeah, how much energy does it sell? And I said, well, our customers are, is the governments, they they don't care about, they don't have commercial interests. They more have they they want. It to work properly so the uptime for them is important. But if you if you miss out on these fundamental things, then you're not building the system at a display in the right manner. Just to give an example. So he he never heard of AC and what how it's working probably because he's always talking to different people, which is quite remarkable if you think that most assets are currently. Revenues, especially at that time, even even more are in the Netherlands. So he completely missed out on the picture.

53:34 Patrick Motsch: Probably give this cup back to you, Peter Pan.

53:37 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Yeah, yeah. And I will round off. So as I said, thanks a lot for the spontaneous first round and I get it. It's a bit of improvising, but there will be. There will be a whole program, so there's much more opportunity to to chip in if you want later on. So thanks a lot. So we will do this as as mentioned, this first round of interviews with with director, with a few directors within the unit with it and and procurement and based on all those interviews, we will put together a program for a kick off. This kickoff will be with a selected group. And based on based on that, we will kick off a program where we will involve much more, much more stakeholders. But how exactly is not yet known? Yeah, so basically this is a first round of interviews and then thanks a lot for all the for all the input.

54:27 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, I hope it helps.

54:29 Patrick Motsch: Thank you, Alex. Evan it.

54:32 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: Yeah, maybe to add 3 words, Peter, is that OK? So it it's in a, it's a, it was an intentional choice to have this round of off the bat conversations also because we are let's say we we want to connect to real things, not just to our concept. Of how things are. So that's very valuable to talk like this to you, alit. And to to Fani and to. Hamrick, and to Anna Marie and to Fabian. And to and to Tobias and then the kickoff select group that we now have is is Peter Fabian Jetska from father for it and Tobias from procurement. So just to also demystify who's that select group? Yeah, cool.

55:22 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): All right.

55:24 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking. I I really didn't prepare maybe for this session sufficiently, but let me rethink it now that we talked. OK, so. OK.

55:37 Jeroen Haverkorn van Rijsewijk: We're not going anywhere, and if you want to have another, if you want to have, for example, another 30 minutes with one of us or something, that's that's perfectly possible. And and like we said, don't stress about it because this is actually intentional. But yeah, by design. And we are iterating this this this. It's an iterative Co creative approach, so very, very great. If if other things come to mind please please share. To me, this was already very helpful. Yeah, we'll see.

56:08 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): OK.

56:09 Patrick Motsch: Me too.

56:11 Ommeren Pieter van (SB): Thanks a lot and have a nice day all.

56:13 Wessels Boer Alied (SB-M): You too.

56:14 Patrick Motsch: Have a nice day all.